Martin Mullaney, Councillor for Moseley & Kings Heath, Birmingham

Aston and Bordesley Green Vote Fraud Trial

Thursday 10th March 2005

1
1 Thursday, 10th March 2005
2 (10.35 am)
3 Housekeeping
4 THE COMMISSIONER: Mr Brodie, the answer to your question is
5 yes, but I would like a hard copy if it is available
6 because the other is sitting on my chambers computer.
7 MR BRODIE: I wonder whether there might be a direction made
8 that Mr Coppel provide me with a copy of his written
9 closing statement 48 hours before we deliver it orally.
10 Ordinarily, he would not have had an opportunity to look
11 at mine at all because normally I give mine second.
12 I would not want to deny him the opportunity ...
13 THE COMMISSIONER: He is due to deliver his on Wednesday,
14 is he not, his written one? I shall not be hearing any
15 oral submissions next week.
16 MR BRODIE: There it is.
17 THE COMMISSIONER: I shall hear oral submissions on 21st
18 and/or 22nd March.
19 MR DE MELLO: In which case, sir, is there a timetable to
20 exchange skeleton arguments?
21 THE COMMISSIONER: There will be a timetable for Aston when
22 we know how we are getting on with the evidence.
23 MR COPPEL: Sir, a few small things before we resume, some
24 housekeeping matters in relation to my learned friend's
25 point. Of course I want to give him as long as he needs
2
1 to read the document and I will do my best. First of
2 all, I got it very late last night so technically
3 speaking it was served on Thursday.
4 MR BRODIE: I cannot tell you how sorry I am.
5 THE COMMISSIONER: I would not waste time trying.
6 MR COPPEL: One has to keep one's eye on the Aston matter.
7 I am involved in both petitions and Mr Brodie is an
8 observer in this one, so --
9 THE COMMISSIONER: My heart bleeds, Mr Coppel, but you have
10 until next Wednesday.
11 MR COPPEL: Sir, three matters. The Godsiff letter. I have
12 spoken to all learned counsel around the table today and
13 all are agreed that you should not read that material,
14 in varying degrees of strength, it is fair to say.
15 THE COMMISSIONER: In which case might I call on the good
16 offices of Ms Marshall to write a formal letter saying
17 that I have received the letter, I have consulted all
18 counsel in the case, it is unanimous that I should not
19 read the letter or its contents and therefore they are
20 being returned to Mr Godsiff.
21 MR HAYES: Far be it for me to cause a fuss. I have
22 considered most carefully Mr Godsiff's letter.
23 I consider it is an irrelevance to these proceedings.
24 However, in my respectful submission, this is serious
25 misconduct from a Member of Parliament. I have never
3
1 heard of a Member of Parliament actually writing to
2 a judge in the middle of a case.
3 THE COMMISSIONER: Do you know, I have not even asked what
4 party Mr Godsiff represents.
5 MR HAYES: He is Labour.
6 THE COMMISSIONER: A Labour Party MP.
7 MR HAYES: I have known him for years. But I do think this
8 is a matter, sir, that ought properly to be put before
9 the Parliamentary Commissioner for Standards because
10 this sort of thing should not happen.
11 MR COPPEL: Sir, all I can say is I hear what my learned
12 friend says. We will consider our position. My learned
13 friend is absolutely right, everyone knows that one does
14 not write to a judge during the course of a hearing and
15 attempt to influence the judge. It is self-evident and
16 should be particularly self-evident, one should have
17 thought, to an MP.
18 THE COMMISSIONER: Mr Hayes will probably know this better
19 than us. Would the appropriate person be the
20 Parliamentary Standards or would the person be the
21 Speaker?
22 MR HAYES: I would write to both and I would urge you to do
23 so as a clear message in the run-up to a general
24 election. Members of Parliament are totally separate
25 from the judiciary and that must always remain so.
4
1 THE COMMISSIONER: I think perhaps if I can be given
2 a photocopy simply of the letter to me and none of the
3 enclosures so that I have chapter and verse should
4 I need to quote dates and contents.
5 MR COPPEL: I will do that, and also I would say that,
6 in the light of what my learned friend has said, the
7 Returning Officer I think will be considering whether
8 she too should be bringing the matter to the attention
9 of one or other of the persons --
10 THE COMMISSIONER: I think that would be sensible because
11 clearly one cannot permit anybody to correspond with
12 a judge who is trying a case, particularly one as
13 sensitive as this. I am quite prepared in this matter
14 to bow to the superior Parliamentary experience of
15 Mr Hayes. He knows how these things are done in
16 Parliament.
17 MR BRODIE: May I make a suggestion? It is difficult for
18 you, sir, to make any sort of a report to the
19 Parliamentary Commissioner in relation to standards
20 without knowing the contents of the letter. Nobody
21 wants you to read the letter.
22 THE COMMISSIONER: I think that the gravamen of the charge
23 is that one should not be writing at all to the judge
24 trying a case, even if it is to say: good on you, mate,
25 go for it.
5
1 It seems to me that that is not something you do,
2 any more than you write to the High Court judge saying:
3 I hope that Bill Sykes gets his comeuppance.
4 MR BRODIE: You have no knowledge as to whether it is --
5 THE COMMISSIONER: I do, because I read the letter to me.
6 I did not read its enclosures. The letter to me made it
7 quite clear that its contents were a series of letters
8 passing between Mr Godsiff and the Returning Officer in
9 which matters were raised concerning the mechanics of
10 elections.
11 MR BRODIE: I say no more.
12 THE COMMISSIONER: I think it is something -- and I am
13 certainly told by those who have read the
14 correspondence, which I am prepared to accept, that the
15 correspondence contains criticisms of the way in which
16 the 10th June election was conducted and, clearly, that
17 would not be appropriate for me to see.
18 MR BRODIE: One sees that.
19 THE COMMISSIONER: So I may well be troubling the
20 Parliamentary Standards Commission, no doubt I can get
21 them from the website.
22 MR HAYES: It is just House of Commons, London, SW1 0AA.
23 MR DE MELLO: Just for the public record, I endorse both my
24 learned friends' views about it.
25 THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you very much.
6
1 MR COPPEL: Sir, the second matter, just to bring you
2 up-to-date in relation to the service of the notices on
3 the 19 people in the Bordesley Green matter. As at
4 4 o'clock yesterday, we had received confirmation from
5 the Royal Mail that four had been delivered and the
6 balance were awaiting confirmation. I will keep the
7 court informed.
8 THE COMMISSIONER: The position so far as that is concerned
9 is that there attended before me this morning in
10 chambers counsel and solicitors representing 17 of the
11 19 people concerned. They simply wished to know what
12 procedures I might be likely to follow on Monday and
13 they indicated that they were going to make an emergency
14 application for public funding for those who were
15 financially in a position to be publicly funded.
16 I indicated to them that they obviously must
17 consider the matter with their clients as to whether
18 their clients do want to respond to the notice or
19 whether they would be prepared to take their chance.
20 It is entirely a matter for them. I said that on Monday
21 I would consider the matter. Anybody who did not
22 respond to the summons on Monday would have to take his
23 chances, anybody who did respond and appear by lawyers
24 I would hear, and if they simply wanted to give evidence
25 before me and answer questions and that would be the end
7
1 of it, fine.
2 If we wanted to make more of a hearing of it and
3 call witnesses then I would treat that application and
4 make any necessary directions. I am told, however, that
5 of the people on the list that two of them may be police
6 officers, and I am told that one may be a solicitor.
7 Whether that should make any difference to their
8 appearance before me I know not but quite clearly it
9 might make a very serious difference as to the attitude
10 they would take to the notice and, of course, I have in
11 mind -- is it section 165, which is mentioned in the
12 summons?
13 MR COPPEL: Section 165 enlarges the consequences.
14 THE COMMISSIONER: It obliges me, if I name anybody, to
15 notify their professional body if they are
16 a professional person. That is obviously a matter that
17 will have to be thought about. I simply said to them
18 I wished them well in their applications for public
19 funding and simply expressed, as I always do on these
20 occasions, my belief that it is better that people
21 should have lawyers in this court than they should not.
22 MR BRODIE: The solicitors and police officers will not come
23 within the scope of officials for public funding in any
24 event.
25 THE COMMISSIONER: They might not, in which case they might
8
1 have to make their own decision.
2 I suggested to the lawyers concerned that they make
3 themselves known to you, and to Mr Coppel in particular,
4 simply to discuss modalities. You may or may not be
5 able to help.
6 Mr Coppel, next matter?
7 MR COPPEL: The third and last matter, sir, is a serious
8 matter indeed. I mentioned yesterday in open court the
9 outstanding allegation levelled against Mr Mirza Ahmad,
10 the Chief Legal Officer from whom you heard, and
11 I indicated that given that Mr Sukul did not
12 cross-examine Mr Ahmad about his having been improperly
13 influenced, I asked my learned friend expressly to
14 formally, openly and unreservedly withdraw that from the
15 court.
16 I have shown my learned friend a copy of the
17 paragraph 7, 108, of the code of conduct of the bar. He
18 knows what the consequences are. I repeat the request:
19 it is a serious allegation. It is made against
20 a professional officer and I do ask him formally, openly
21 and unreservedly to withdraw it.
22 THE COMMISSIONER: What is your position on this, Mr Sukul?
23 MR SUKUL: May I first of all mention my best apologies for
24 not being able to get here on time.
25 THE COMMISSIONER: I gather you were caught in traffic.
9
1 MR SUKUL: Whether the allegation is made against Sir Albert
2 Bore or indeed the man who is selling potatoes in the
3 street matters not.
4 The second point is this: I do not really have to
5 look at this. I think it is irrelevant and a waste of
6 time because it is for you to decide whether or not, not
7 for the parties, whether or not I should properly
8 withdraw the allegations. The reason I do not want to
9 withdraw them is this: this court has heard from three
10 separate witnesses appearing on the side of the
11 petitioners about allegations that concern
12 Sir Albert Bore.
13 If I choose to leave the extent of evidence that
14 I wish to --
15 THE COMMISSIONER: I think it is Mr Mirza Ahmad that
16 Mr Coppel is worried about. Sir Albert, as it were, can
17 look after himself, though he is not a witness in this
18 case and no doubt the question of his being so has been
19 considered at some stage and rejected. So I am not
20 concerned with Sir Albert. What concerns Mr Coppel is
21 this: it was not expressly put to Mr Mirza Ahmad that he
22 had been improperly influenced either by Sir Albert Bore
23 or by Councillor Afzal, which is indeed the case put
24 forward by your witnesses.
25 MR SUKUL: Sir, the golden rule is that what counsel says
10
1 does not amount to evidence. Within this camp, evidence
2 was led about allegations that were adverse as against
3 Mr Mirza. If that is the way the petitioners choose to
4 put their case, they are perfectly entitled to do it.
5 THE COMMISSIONER: Yes, but the point that is made is that
6 that should have been put to Mr Mirza Ahmad in
7 cross-examination but it was not put to Mr Mirza Ahmad
8 in cross-examination. That is the criticism made.
9 It is no criticism made of you having put forward
10 evidence to suggest that he was influenced by Sir Albert
11 and Councillor Afzal. The complaint that is made
12 is that you did not follow that up when you had him
13 in the witness box. That is the complaint made. Nobody
14 can complain that you adduced evidence to show these
15 matters but if you do, your obligation surely is to
16 either put it to the witness or withdraw the allegation.
17 I suggest that you think harder about this, because
18 it is a matter that does reflect on the professional
19 conduct of the case simply because it is a fairly
20 fundamental, if not longstanding rule of the bar, that
21 if you adduce a case against a particular person and
22 that person gives evidence, it is your duty to put your
23 case to him and if you do not put it to him then the
24 allegation should be or you should indicate whether the
25 allegation is withdrawn.
11
1 I do not say anything further at this time, but
2 I wish you would think about this during the course of
3 the day and I think by the end of the day I would really
4 need a considered response as to this because it is
5 a matter of substance.
6 Mr Coppel is not complaining -- if he is not
7 complaining I am not listening to him, about your
8 adducing evidence to show that Mr Mirza Ahmad went into
9 a huddle with these two gentlemen. Fine, that is
10 perfectly good and I would have to decide whether
11 I believe it or not.
12 What he is complaining about is that you did not put
13 that to Mr Mirza Ahmed.
14 MR COPPEL: As part of my learned friend's consideration
15 I have given him a copy of part 7 of the code of
16 conduct. I would ask him to look at paragraph 708, and
17 in particular sub-paragraph (i), and just to make the
18 point that this is not an idle complaint, sir, you will
19 have seen today's Birmingham Post.
20 THE COMMISSIONER: I have not, but tell me.
21 MR COPPEL: Page 3, headline, "Legal Officer Denies
22 Consulting Board Before Admitting Votes". This is not
23 a small matter so far as we are concerned.
24 THE COMMISSIONER: That I do not think you need to address
25 me further on. I can well see that.
12
1 With regard to the respondents, such as Mr Islam who
2 has been sitting patiently here, subject to what you may
3 say, I would propose the batting order of the
4 questioning to be Mr De Mello, Mr Brook if he so wishes,
5 Mr Coppel and finally Mr Sukul. Has anyone any
6 objection to that?
7 MR DE MELLO: I have just one concern which crosses my mind.
8 There are specific allegations set out in the schedule
9 of pleadings. One of the things that does concern me
10 is that the allegation is that there was a conspiracy
11 between or amongst the respondents. I might be
12 disadvantaged if there are certain matters put by
13 Mr Sukul to the witness regarding the conspiracy
14 element, which then I might not be able to return to as
15 far as this particular witness is concerned. That is my
16 only worry.
17 THE COMMISSIONER: Yes. I see your concerns, Mr De Mello,
18 but the normal rule both in civil and in criminal cases
19 is that co-defendants, if I can call it that, or
20 co-respondents in this case, although not in the old
21 sense of co-respondents I am happy to say,
22 co-respondents get to cross-examine their fellow
23 respondents.
24 If you are seriously in problems, Mr De Mello,
25 I will certainly hear you again on this.
13
1 MR DE MELLO: Subject to that, Mr Hayes, have you anything
2 further to put to Mr Islam?
3 MR HAYES: Not at this stage, sir.
4 THE COMMISSIONER: Mr De Mello, you are still on your feet.
5 MR DE MELLO: Thank you.
6 MR SUKUL: May I just interrupt my learned friend for which
7 I apologise. I wonder if I might exceptionally ask the
8 court's indulgence. Matters are going to be put
9 eventually to Mr Islam that concern his presence at the
10 warehouse, others who were present that night are
11 sitting in court. I am in your hands. I am thinking
12 that it will be probably prudent to ask that --
13 THE COMMISSIONER: Mr Sukul, I do not think I can. The
14 position is this: the only witnesses from whom I have
15 statements, and therefore subject to any application
16 being made by Mr Hayes or Mr De Mello the only witnesses
17 I shall be hearing as at present, are the three
18 respondents who have a right to be in court.
19 MR SUKUL: Sir, yes.
20 THE COMMISSIONER: As have the petitioners. I could not
21 exclude any of them. If it was Mr Hayes's intention to
22 call others at the warehouse --
23 MR HAYES: I have just had the puff of white smoke from my
24 learned friend that I was hoping for, because it appears
25 he is indicating -- I do not want to misrepresent him --
14
1 that he would not object to any application that I would
2 make to call those witnesses who were at the warehouse,
3 and I so make that application.
4 THE COMMISSIONER: Do I have their statements here?
5 MR HAYES: You do.
6 MR SUKUL: I do not.
7 THE COMMISSIONER: You do not have their statements? Oh.
8 Can you tell me their names?
9 MR HAYES: Mr Mohammed Najib.
10 THE COMMISSIONER: I do not have him. I have Mohammed
11 Ashab, A Rahim, Kala Miah, Faruk Miah, Laila Begum, Mala
12 Bibi. I think those are the only ones that I have that
13 I can spot. There may be more behind the tab.
14 MR HAYES: I had hoped that they would have been there. I
15 do apologise.
16 THE COMMISSIONER: I do not see any of the people you have
17 just mentioned.
18 MR HAYES: Then I apologise and they will be with my learned
19 friend.
20 THE COMMISSIONER: If you intend to call them subject to my
21 leave, we had better have them out of court.
22 Mr De Mello?
23 MR SUKUL: Can you please --
24 MR HAYES: They are going.
25 THE COMMISSIONER: Do not worry, Mr Sukul. They are going.
15
1 MR DE MELLO: Mr Afzal does not propose to call any
2 witnesses.
3 THE COMMISSIONER: Does he propose to give evidence?
4 MR DE MELLO: Yes.
5 THE COMMISSIONER: You are still on oath, Mr Islam.
6 MR MOHAMMED NAZRUL ISLAM (continued)
7 Cross-examination by MR DE MELLO
8 MR DE MELLO: Mr Islam, could you please help me about
9 a number of matters. Firstly, could you open your
10 statement and turn to paragraph 7. You said in evidence
11 that you began to form a team of people from within the
12 Bengali community in Aston.
13 A. That is correct.
14 Q. Paragraph 9, at the early stage you had about nine
15 helpers and you named the nine helpers set out there.
16 Am I right in thinking that all these nine persons were
17 of Bengali or Bangladeshi origins, that is right?
18 A. (Witness nods)
19 Q. Next, am I right in also suggesting that it was your
20 decision and your decision alone as to who you chose to
21 form part of your team; correct?
22 A. (Witness nods)
23 Q. Next, am I right in also suggesting that in drawing up
24 this team, you did not consult either Kazi or more
25 importantly Councillor Afzal; that is correct?
16
1 A. (Witness nods)
2 Q. Then you tell us in paragraphs 10 and 11 that on
3 occasions you contacted Muhammad Afzal, and am I right
4 in suggesting that the essence of his advice to you
5 about the procedures to be followed in the election are
6 as set out in paragraph 11 of your statement?
7 A. (Witness nods). Yes.
8 Q. Then if you could move forward in your witness
9 statement, going particularly to the warehouse incident,
10 which starts on page 559, paragraph 25. If you look in
11 particular at paragraph 29:
12 "At around 11 pm Mr Kazi arrived in the campaign
13 office and at about 11.30 our campaign organiser,
14 Mr Zulfikar, arrived."
15 Am I correct in suggesting that the election agent
16 was a Mr Amjad Hussain? Would that be right?
17 A. I do not remember. I was not there.
18 Q. No, no, but he was the person who was the election
19 agent?
20 A. That is right.
21 THE COMMISSIONER: What is his name?
22 MR DE MELLO: Amjad Hussain. That will be perhaps discussed
23 in Councillor Afzal's witness statement when he gives
24 evidence.
25 Next, keeping to that paragraph. Mr Zulfikar, you
17
1 claim, told you that he saw Mr Ayoub Khan's brother in
2 a red Carina or Corolla parked by the campaign office,
3 that is correct, is it not?
4 A. Yes.
5 Q. You then mention in paragraph 30 a Mr Najib. You
6 describe him to be another campaign worker, but would
7 you accept that he was merely a person who helped and
8 sympathised with the Labour votes?
9 A. Yes.
10 Q. Next, we know that Mr Najib owns a warehouse. That is
11 right, is it not?
12 A. Yes.
13 Q. What I want to ask you is whether you accept that
14 Councillor Afzal was not in the campaign office on that
15 night at 11 o'clock or thereabouts.
16 A. Correct.
17 Q. Would you also tell me if you at that time knew what
18 kind of car Councillor Afzal was driving? Are you able
19 to remember?
20 A. No.
21 Q. Next, you say that Mr Najib, paragraph 30, please, was
22 ordered to store the envelopes in the safety of his
23 warehouse. Can you please tell me what you mean by the
24 term "ordered"?
25 A. It is a typing, clerical error. It should be "offered".
18
1 Q. Was this invitation extended to him by yourself or by
2 someone else?
3 A. Can you repeat it, please?
4 Q. Yes. Did you ask Mr Najib, "Look here, Mr Najib, could
5 you please take these whatever to your warehouse and
6 keep it there" or did someone else ask him?
7 A. No, he did not.
8 Q. No, no, but did you ask him, did you speak to him or did
9 someone else speak to Mr Najib at that time?
10 A. Mr Najib was there and he offered that if we had concern
11 about the safety --
12 Q. I beg your pardon?
13 THE COMMISSIONER: Who decided to accept his offer? He
14 offered to do this, somebody must have said, "Yes, that
15 is a good idea". Who said, "Yes, it is a good idea" and
16 agreed to it?
17 A. The three. Not Zulfikar.
18 THE COMMISSIONER: Zulfikar and yourself?
19 A. And Mr Kazi.
20 THE COMMISSIONER: Let me just follow the learned
21 Commissioner's enquiry. Did one of you or the three of
22 you say to Mr Najib "Look here, Mr Najib, we will take
23 you up on this offer", or was it your decision, or what?
24 A. Mr Najib said that if you are so concerned that they are
25 safe in my warehouse, it is up to you.
19
1 MR DE MELLO: Who then agreed --
2 A. We accepted, the three of us.
3 Q. Was it a collective decision?
4 A. Yes.
5 Q. Am I right in thinking that that decision was taken
6 there and then upon his offer being made to you?
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. Can I ask you also to confirm that upon accepting his
9 offer, you did not consult with Councillor Afzal about
10 it?
11 A. No, I did not.
12 Q. Am I right in also suggesting that the NT warehouse,
13 I call it the NT warehouse, is where the cars went to
14 and the bags were taken; yes?
15 A. Yes.
16 Q. That warehouse belongs to Mr Najib?
17 A. I believe so, yes.
18 Q. It has nothing to do with the Labour campaign office.
19 Let us move on. If I could just ask you to turn --
20 I will not ask you to turn, we will keep it simple. You
21 went out together, yes, with Zulfikar and Kazi; yes?
22 A. Not together.
23 Q. But you went out later?
24 A. Later.
25 Q. Are you able to say who took the bag of votes out?
20
1 A. Zulfikar Khan.
2 Q. Are you able to tell us, and we will hear later from
3 him, whether he took it out openly or whether he
4 concealed it under his jacket or what?
5 A. It was a large bag.
6 Q. Am I right therefore in understanding from that answer
7 that he took it out openly, yes?
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. And were you aware at the time that when he took it out
10 openly that Mr Ayoub Khan's brother was still hanging
11 outside in a car? Did you know he was there at that
12 time?
13 A. No. Mr Zulfikar told me, but when we were --
14 Mr Zulfikar is out probably, he is not there, I am not
15 sure.
16 Q. We are moving forward. Turn the page forward, please.
17 You get to the warehouse, can you please tell me in
18 whose car did you go?
19 A. I went about two or three minutes later with one of my
20 friends who gave me a lift.
21 THE COMMISSIONER: Who was that?
22 A. Mr Faruk.
23 THE COMMISSIONER: He gave you a lift.
24 A. Yes.
25 THE COMMISSIONER: Can you remember what sort of car he
21
1 drives?
2 A. I think it is a Toyota Carina.
3 MR DE MELLO: Can you please also help me about one thing.
4 Do you recall what kind of cars were there at the time
5 of getting to the warehouse?
6 A. I do not remember the cars.
7 THE COMMISSIONER: How many cars actually came to the
8 warehouse? Leave aside the police. But how many other
9 people's cars came to the warehouse?
10 A. I do not remember because it was quite dark.
11 THE COMMISSIONER: Had you been to this warehouse before?
12 A. Not recently. Many, many years ago.
13 THE COMMISSIONER: What I want to know is how did you or the
14 friend that was driving, how did you know where to go?
15 A. Because I know, I have been shopping a couple of years
16 ago.
17 THE COMMISSIONER: So you know the trading estate.
18 A. Yes.
19 THE COMMISSIONER: I see.
20 MR DE MELLO: When you were in the warehouse, was there
21 a gentleman who was bald, wearing spectacles, and
22 somewhat chubby present?
23 A. When we went there, Mr Najib opened the door I saw his
24 brother and son also there.
25 Q. Just stop there, please. Can you tell me their names?
22
1 A. I do not know their names.
2 Q. Was there a person called Tariq Hussain at NT warehouse?
3 A. Could be. I am not sure.
4 Q. Well, perhaps Mr Kazi might be able to assist us. What
5 I want to be absolutely sure about is that Councillor
6 Afzal was not there, correct?
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. No doubt you will be asked about what took place there
9 and you can discuss that, but what I want to be
10 absolutely sure about is that you did not at any stage,
11 whilst in the warehouse, contact Councillor Afzal,
12 is that right?
13 A. Right.
14 Q. Will you excuse me a moment? I cannot read my
15 solicitor's handwriting.
16 THE COMMISSIONER: That encapsulates 40 years at the bar.
17 However, the position is mutual.
18 MR DE MELLO: It has not enlightened me.
19 THE COMMISSIONER: Have you anything further, Mr De Mello?
20 MR DE MELLO: No, thank you very much.
21 THE COMMISSIONER: Any questions, Mr Brook?
22 MR BROOK: No questions.
23 THE COMMISSIONER: Mr Coppel?
24 MR COPPEL: No, sir.
25 MR HAYES: Before Mr Sukul begins, Mr Islam is very hard of
23
1 hearing. If my learned friend could take that into
2 account.
3 THE COMMISSIONER: Right.
4 MR HAYES: I know he gets a little excited.
5 MR SUKUL: Mr Islam looks very calm. He is not excited at
6 all.
7 MR HAYES: No, no, you.
8 MR SUKUL: I see.
9 THE COMMISSIONER: I thought that was a brilliant response
10 but perhaps not. I think mention of pots and kettles
11 might well find Mr Hayes on the back foot.
12 Cross-examination by MR SUKUL
13 MR SUKUL: Mr Islam, good morning to you.
14 A. Good morning.
15 Q. I will come to the warehouse in due course. What
16 I would like to do is to start by asking you about some
17 DOIs and some signatures and such like. But it would
18 help, I think, if that volume of papers, that bundle of
19 papers that says B, C, D, E, can you put it on your
20 table.
21 THE COMMISSIONER: It is one of the three files, is it?
22 MR SUKUL: It says B, C, D, E, and DOIs and the
23 handwriting --
24 THE COMMISSIONER: These are mystery B as referred to in the
25 handwriting experts' reports?
24
1 MR SUKUL: May I mention that the DOIs are in numerical
2 order so if there is a requirement --
3 THE COMMISSIONER: I see Mr Ayoub Khan nodding so I will
4 take that as a yes.
5 MR SUKUL: May I also identify the handwriting expert,
6 Mr Cosslett's report, because occasional reference will
7 have to be made to that.
8 THE COMMISSIONER: I think that is in bundle 3.
9 MR SUKUL: It says volume 3, evidence.
10 THE COMMISSIONER: My 3 seems to have disappeared, I am not
11 sure where, unless I have put it here. It has come to
12 light among the various other documents. What page
13 would you like me to refer to?
14 MR SUKUL: We will begin at 612 in due course, sir.
15 THE COMMISSIONER: I will get that available.
16 MR SUKUL: Mr Islam, you have papers and various things in
17 front of you. You are very familiar with the allegation
18 that the petitioners have brought against you, is that
19 right.
20 A. (Witness nods)
21 Q. You know they are allegations that you have forged
22 documents and forged signatures and so on. You are
23 aware of these allegations, are you not?
24 A. (Witness nods)
25 Q. And of course you have made this witness statement,
25
1 you have put forward your defence. Yes?
2 A. Yes.
3 Q. I want to be very fair to you, because it is the right
4 thing to do. Tell this court if, other than what
5 you have mentioned in your witness statement, is there
6 anything else you want to tell this court which is
7 relevant to the defence that you have put up that
8 you have not forged signatures and forged documents?
9 A. I did not do anything wrong, anything like .... On my
10 part, I did not do anything wrong.
11 Q. You have not done anything wrong? All right. Would you
12 tell me, indeed tell this court, what is your correct
13 name?
14 A. Mohammed Nazrul Islam.
15 Q. When you sign your name, do you sign Mohammed Nazrul
16 Islam, do you sign M Islam, do you sign M N Islam, N
17 Islam; which of those do you use?
18 A. It varies all the time.
19 Q. Would you accept that most people, most people will use
20 one signature and not many?
21 A. I cannot comment on this.
22 Q. I am asking you for your reply. Would you accept that
23 most people or the majority of people would simply use
24 one signature for everything: credit card, insurance.
25 Anything at all they need to sign for they will use one
26
1 signature, the majority of people?
2 A. I cannot comment.
3 Q. Can you comment on this: you as a person have chosen as
4 far as the election documents are concerned, you have
5 chosen to use several signatures?
6 A. Sometimes I put in capital letters, and sometimes a
7 round signature. But I will always put my address.
8 Q. I have not asked about the address. I will come to the
9 address in a moment. How many different signatures have
10 you used on the election documents?
11 A. I can see from these notes about this three kinds of
12 signatures.
13 Q. To make sure I have got this right --
14 THE COMMISSIONER: To what purpose? Why do you have three
15 separate signatures on what are essentially identical
16 documents?
17 A. Sir, I always put my address, 16 Little Oaks, where
18 I live, and --
19 THE COMMISSIONER: Sometimes you use another address, do you
20 not?
21 A. Sometimes I sign capital letters and sometimes other
22 variations.
23 THE COMMISSIONER: Why were there variations in signature on
24 documents, all of which were the same sort of document?
25 I can see someone might have a different signature for
27
1 his credit card from one that he puts on other
2 documents. Fine. But all these documents are of the
3 same thing. They are all declarations of identity.
4 I am just trying to get at why you should have different
5 signatures depending on when and where you sign them.
6 A. It is not in my mind that any sort of, anything, you
7 know, other than this is my signature and as long as
8 I think, I admit that these are all my signatures. At
9 election time we are very busy and sometimes I --
10 because in some you put your signature, on the second
11 line you have to write your full name. And I thought
12 sometimes I can put (inaudible) on both lines. This is
13 the way, you know, it is a bit different but it
14 (inaudible) that it could be or looks all the same, it
15 would be sensible.
16 THE COMMISSIONER: If you put your signature all in capital
17 letters, then it is very difficult for anyone to tell
18 whether that is your signature or somebody else who is
19 writing your name in your place. Do you follow?
20 A. I agree to it that it is all my signatures.
21 THE COMMISSIONER: That is not my question. If you simply
22 write out your name in block capitals, then it is very
23 difficult for some other person to tell whether that is
24 your signature or whether it is someone who has just
25 written your name out in block capitals. Whereas if
28
1 you have an ordinary signature, then unless somebody
2 deliberately forges it there will be a difference
3 between that and something written by somebody else.
4 Are you with me?
5 A. Yes, sir.
6 THE COMMISSIONER: Was there any purpose behind your using
7 different signatures on different documents?
8 A. Not whatsoever, sir.
9 MR SUKUL: So if there was no purpose --
10 A. No.
11 Q. -- why do you do it if there was no purpose? There must
12 be a purpose, do you accept?
13 A. There is no purpose in my mind. I have admitted these
14 are all my signatures.
15 Q. Mr Islam, I suggest that the reason why you changed your
16 signatures is because you simply wanted to mislead the
17 Returning Officer by way of whatever you have put on
18 those DOIs?
19 A. I did not.
20 Q. You were looking to cheat and deceive, were you not?
21 A. Not so.
22 Q. What is your usual signature? What do you normally
23 sign?
24 A. It varies.
25 Q. How do you sign your cheques then? Let us make it easy.
29
1 A. Just the chequebook, you know, I sign.
2 Q. What do you sign on the chequebook?
3 A. Because of the election --
4 THE COMMISSIONER: Do you have with you, Mr Islam, by any
5 chance, a credit card?
6 A. Not with me.
7 THE COMMISSIONER: So we could not see what you put on
8 a credit card.
9 A. No.
10 MR SUKUL: Tell us what you put on a credit card.
11 THE COMMISSIONER: Do you put a --
12 A. A short signature.
13 THE COMMISSIONER: A short signature but not block capitals?
14 A. No.
15 MR SUKUL: Did you say you put block capitals?
16 THE COMMISSIONER: He said no block capitals.
17 MR SUKUL: I just want to find out what was operating in
18 your mind when you changed your signatures. That is
19 important in a matter like this. I have counted, and
20 I am going to save the court's time, I have counted that
21 on 30 separate DOIs you have signed MN Islam. Do you
22 accept that or do you want me to take you to all 30?
23 Would you accept that on 30 DOIs you have signed your
24 name as MN Islam?
25 A. Yes.
30
1 Q. Then on 35 DOIs you have signed your name as M Islam.
2 A. Yes, it could be.
3 Q. You are signing these two names on the same type of
4 document. They are all DOIs. That is right, is it not?
5 A. (Witness nods)
6 Q. Then you have also signed Nazrul Islam on one DOI,
7 do you accept that?
8 A. (Witness nods)
9 Q. The point I make to you is this: it is as if you are
10 signing many checks in your chequebook because of course
11 it is the same type of document you are signing all the
12 time. Please tell this court why is it that you are
13 changing your signature when you are signing the same
14 type of document all the time? What was the purpose for
15 that?
16 A. As I mentioned, there is nothing in my mind. Because
17 I put my address in there and --
18 Q. I have questions concerning the address and I am coming
19 to that in a moment. Mr Islam, you are telling this
20 court that you have no reason at all to sign 66
21 signatures on 66 DOIs using three variations of your
22 signature, there is no reason for it, is that your
23 answer?
24 A. Yes. You will find these documents, the DOI I was
25 witnessing, the voter's signature --
31
1 Q. I have not asked about the voter's signature.
2 A. You never find anything that I have signed that the
3 voter did not sign.
4 Q. I have not used the phrase "voter's signature" at all,
5 but I will.
6 Sir, I am showing Mr Islam page 28 of the bundle,
7 the pleadings bundle. I do not think that you have 28
8 but I will save you the time because I can show that to
9 you straightaway.
10 THE COMMISSIONER: Do you ever sign yourself S Islam?
11 A. Yes. This is my card signature, sir. This is
12 exceptional for my chequebooks.
13 THE COMMISSIONER: Yes, I see.
14 MR SUKUL: Mr Islam, would you accept then that that is the
15 signature that you use most often, that one in front of
16 you?
17 A. This is the one I use only strictly for my chequebooks,
18 for the cheques.
19 Q. And of course that is the notice of acting that you gave
20 to your solicitors?
21 A. Yes, this is the signature I strictly use for my
22 cheques.
23 Q. Why did you use it on that document then if you use it
24 strictly for your chequebooks?
25 A. (Pause)
32
1 Q. I will carry on. You see, Mr Islam, I suggest to you
2 that the reason why you changed your signatures is
3 because you did not want those DOIs to be traced back to
4 you, because of course you were contesting the election?
5 A. No, there is nothing like that.
6 Q. Okay. Let me ask you about your address. Where were
7 you living, what was your residence at the time of the
8 election?
9 A. 16 Little Oaks Road, Aston, Birmingham, B66 JOI.
10 Q. So why were you writing Islam, Jardine Road?
11 A. It was another family home.
12 Q. But you were not living there, that is not your address,
13 is it?
14 A. No.
15 Q. The documents said: name of witness, signature of
16 witness, address of witness. You can only fill that in
17 in one way, is that not right?
18 A. (Witness nods)
19 Q. Mohammed Nazrul Islam, your signature like that one in
20 front of you, 16 Little Oaks Road. That would be the
21 correct details to put on any DOI, is that not right?
22 A. (Witness nods)
23 Q. That is right, is it not?
24 A. Can you repeat the question?
25 Q. All right.
33
1 THE COMMISSIONER: The question is actually slightly simpler
2 than that. Why in completing declarations of identity
3 do you use two different addresses?
4 A. Because that is the house, 22 Jardine Road, I lived
5 there 18 years and it is still my family house, and
6 sometimes I probably was campaigning at that part of the
7 Aston ward and probably somebody went there and asked
8 for the DOI, and I put that in. But it is only a few.
9 On the 6 or 7 I can recall, not more than that. But
10 it is in a (inaudible) enquiry can be made, it will
11 still come to me. So there is not any problem.
12 THE COMMISSIONER: I just wondered why would you need to
13 sign in two different addresses?
14 A. They mention that probably at that time somebody come
15 around to me at that address and I put that address.
16 THE COMMISSIONER: You mean you were using Jardine Road for
17 campaigning?
18 A. No, sir.
19 THE COMMISSIONER: Why would someone come to Jardine Road if
20 you are not living there?
21 A. There are a number of people living there and I lived
22 there for a long, long time and they knew me.
23 THE COMMISSIONER: If they came round to Jardine Road, they
24 would say: Mr Islam does not live here now, he lives
25 somewhere else, and they would give your current
34
1 address. Why would you use the address? I can see why
2 somebody who knows that you used to live there might
3 come round and knock on the door, but why would you
4 yourself, when you no longer live there, put the name on
5 the DOI?
6 A. It is my family home and (inaudible) address, made to
7 that address, they still come -- my distant uncle lives
8 there, you know.
9 THE COMMISSIONER: You see the problem is this, which
10 Mr Sukul is asking about. We have these declarations of
11 identity on which there are at least two different
12 addresses for you and on which there are a considerable
13 number of different types of signature. Mr Sukul
14 really, I think, would like you to explain that.
15 Is that fair, Mr Sukul?
16 MR SUKUL: That is very fair, sir.
17 Would you like to explain that, Mr Islam, put very
18 clearly by the good Commissioner?
19 A. There is not anything in my mind that if I use my
20 different types of signature it will be any sort of
21 controversy or anything in my mind. The voter who I am
22 witnessing, they are -- the voter -- I witnessed
23 them ...
24 THE COMMISSIONER: The problem is, Mr Islam, it will be said
25 in this case that on occasions where you have witnessed
35
1 the voter's signature, the signature of the voter that
2 appears on the declaration of identity is not the same
3 signature as appears on the application for a postal
4 vote; which tends to show that one or other of those
5 signatures is not correct. Are you with me?
6 A. Yes, sir.
7 THE COMMISSIONER: If the signature on the declaration of
8 identity is a forgery, then obviously the question that
9 has to be asked is: why is your name on it as a witness?
10 A. I am not with you, sir.
11 THE COMMISSIONER: If the declaration of identity can be
12 shown to have a forged voter's signature and you have
13 witnessed it, how does that come about?
14 A. I never signed any witness signature for any forged
15 voter.
16 THE COMMISSIONER: That is your answer.
17 MR SUKUL: Just the last point or two on the variation to
18 your signature. I have covered Nazrul Islam. I think
19 I said you have used that once, M Islam 35, and N Islam
20 30. You realise that that information has come from the
21 handwriting expert's report.
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. You have had plenty of time to look at that report
24 yourself, have you not?
25 A. Yes.
36
1 Q. You understand everything in that report?
2 A. Yes.
3 Q. Let me try and save a bit of time. Is there anything
4 in that report that you disagree with, anything at all
5 in the handwriting report as it concerns you, the
6 reference B part that you --
7 MR HAYES: With the greatest of respect to my learned
8 friend, it is a very long report.
9 THE COMMISSIONER: Perhaps we can home in on it. As
10 I understand it, your case is that Mr Islam is primarily
11 concerned with the documents that we have known as
12 mystery B.
13 MR SUKUL: Sir, yes.
14 THE COMMISSIONER: Mr Islam, you are probably aware of this,
15 but we have in the bundle a lot of documents in the tab
16 which says "Mystery B". What is said about those
17 documents is this: your handwriting appears on a lot of
18 declarations of identity. On many of them it appears
19 under your name and your address. But the problem that
20 the handwriting expert found, and really you will be
21 invited to comment on, is this: there are a number of
22 occasions where what appears to be your handwriting has
23 been found where somebody else's name has been used and
24 somebody else's address. But it is in your handwriting.
25 That is, I think, what Mr Sukul would like you to
37
1 comment on.
2 MR SUKUL: Indeed, and to assist you in fact I have made
3 a proper note as to where you can actually find
4 a different name.
5 THE COMMISSIONER: Do you have bundle A, B, C, D in front of
6 you? I think it is probably helpful if you look at the
7 A, B, C, D, bundle, please, in the actual file. Because
8 then we all have the same in front of us.
9 The first tab is B. You have got that?
10 A. Yes.
11 THE COMMISSIONER: That is the mystery B ones. Let us look
12 at the very first document. The first document is
13 a document which is declaration of identity 000614.
14 That declaration of identity, do you have that? It is
15 the very first document, page 1. I think you are going
16 too far. The first document after the pink tab. Are
17 you with me?
18 That document appears to have been witnessed by
19 somebody called Kala Miah?
20 A. That is right.
21 Q. And we have the name of the witness and the address the
22 witness has written out, Kala Miah, and we have another
23 one, if you look two pages on, there is another Kala
24 Miah of Sutton Road?
25 A. Yes.
38
1 Q. Right. The handwriting expert seems to have formed the
2 view that it was you who wrote Kala Miah of 25 Sutton
3 Road?
4 A. No, it is written by Kala Miah and I just filled the
5 witness, address and name.
6 THE COMMISSIONER: So you do not agree that the name of
7 witness and address of witness have been written by you.
8 A. No, sir.
9 THE COMMISSIONER: Right. If you move on to the fifth page,
10 it is a ballot paper numbered 631, 000631.
11 That has as a witness an MS Islam of 254 Albert
12 Road. The handwriting expert has formed the view that
13 the person who wrote MS Islam is the same person who has
14 written your name and address on other declarations of
15 identity. Is the handwriting expert right, did you
16 write MS Islam of Albert Road?
17 A. No, sir. The bottom side is, after the signature of the
18 witness, the rest is the writing by me.
19 THE COMMISSIONER: So you wrote the name of witness and the
20 address of witness.
21 A. Just the address and name, yes.
22 THE COMMISSIONER: I think the question that we will want to
23 know is this: what are you doing writing MS Islam of 254
24 Albert Road on this declaration of identity because you
25 are not MS Islam of 254 Albert Road.
39
1 A. The signature of the witness is given by Mr -- somebody
2 called S Islam.
3 THE COMMISSIONER: Why is S Islam not able to write his or
4 her own name and address at Albert Road?
5 A. He simply asked me to write his name, sir. Because
6 I think I recall that his name is Mr Shahid Islam.
7 THE COMMISSIONER: I am slightly baffled by this because the
8 person who writes the signature on 00631 is obviously
9 quite capable of writing a signature, it is a perfectly
10 legible signature so he is not illiterate or anything
11 like that, but we do seem to have somebody else, namely
12 yourself, writing out his name and address. It seems
13 very odd, Mr Islam. How does this come about?
14 A. It is right, he probably asked me to do it.
15 THE COMMISSIONER: Why would he ask you if he can do it
16 himself?
17 A. I think he could, but I do not know.
18 THE COMMISSIONER: You see the person whose signature is
19 being witnessed is a lady who lives in Wheeler Street.
20 We can see that because we have the application to vote
21 for this lady, sadly with a different signature from the
22 one on the declaration of identity, but nonetheless
23 we have this lady in Wheeler Street. It is all rather
24 a mystery, Mr Islam, I was hoping you might be able to
25 help me on this.
40
1 A. Probably Mr Islam, who is another Islam, of 254 --
2 THE COMMISSIONER: I accept it is an obvious Muslim name,
3 yes.
4 A. He took me to one of the lady who live -- the address
5 you mentioned. Mr Islam signed and then I completed it.
6 THE COMMISSIONER: Why are you both round at Wheeler Street?
7 A. Probably he is illiterate or something.
8 THE COMMISSIONER: If he is related why do you need to write
9 anything on it at all? Surely if Mr S Islam is related
10 to this lady in Wheeler Street, he can write his name
11 and address and does not need you to help. I am rather
12 baffled by this.
13 A. Probably he was campaigning with me and he took me over
14 there.
15 THE COMMISSIONER: Do you know Mr S Islam?
16 A. Yes, I do.
17 MR SUKUL: Is his name mentioned on the list my learned
18 friend was reading out?
19 THE COMMISSIONER: No, I do not think there is anyone called
20 S Islam at paragraph 9 if that is what you are referring
21 to.
22 MR SUKUL: The name is not in the list of names that you put
23 in your witness statement as your assistants and
24 helpers.
25 A. No.
41
1 Q. If he was there with you and assisting you, why did you
2 not include his name there?
3 A. They were not campaigning with me, no.
4 Q. Mr Islam, you are not telling us the truth, are you?
5 A. I am telling you the truth.
6 THE COMMISSIONER: I wonder if you can help me on another
7 document that I have taken somewhat at random. About
8 a inch into the papers you will find declaration of
9 identity 001011. They are in numbered order so you
10 should be able to get there. On the face of it, that
11 has been signed by a Mr A Rahim and the name of witness
12 is A Rahim, 267 Frederick Road. Do you see that?
13 A. Yes.
14 THE COMMISSIONER: The handwriting expert seems to think
15 that the person who wrote the name of witness and
16 address of witness is you. Did you write that?
17 A. I just write the witness name and the address of
18 Mr Rahim, he signed himself and because of this he made
19 a statement, I think.
20 THE COMMISSIONER: Is that the Mr Abdul Rahim who is
21 referred to in your paragraph 9?
22 A. Yes.
23 THE COMMISSIONER: Again, I am rather baffled by this,
24 Mr Islam, and I am sure I am missing a point here. Why
25 is Mr Rahim, who is able to sign his name quite clearly,
42
1 why does he not then fill in his name and address, why
2 does he have to get you to do it?
3 A. Mr Rahim is not a qualified person. He is an illiterate
4 person. He just signed his signature. He make
5 a statement and he will sign his signature and he also
6 willing to come to the court and give evidence that
7 it is his signature and I help him write the address
8 because he cannot write his address. His spelling is
9 not good enough.
10 THE COMMISSIONER: I am sure I am being very dim about this,
11 but you are there when this witness signs, this witness
12 is somebody called Rafik Miah. We know that because
13 we can see it from the next document. If you are there
14 and this voter is signing a voter paper, why do you need
15 to write out Mr Rahim's address and get him to put his
16 signature on? Why do you not just witness it and be
17 done with it? Why does it need two of you, one writing
18 a name and address and the other writing a signature?
19 It does seem to be a very strange way of going about
20 things.
21 A. Because the people Mr Rahim know, I went there with him,
22 they left him to sign because they know him more than
23 me, they know him very well than me, so they are quite
24 happy for him to witness this signature.
25 THE COMMISSIONER: It does seem very laborious. Here
43
1 you have three people at least. You have the voter,
2 you have Mr Rahim, you have you, all of you presumably
3 at this address in Ettington Road, Aston. It does seem
4 a very laborious way to go about things, if I may put
5 it. One would have expected one person would write both
6 the signature of the witness and the name and address of
7 the witness, whether it was you or whether it was
8 Mr Rahim. It seems slightly odd to have two people
9 doing this. Can you help us on this?
10 A. Mr Rahim came to me saying that he got somebody
11 (inaudible) and if I could go along with him that he can
12 sign the declaration of identification. So I did go
13 with him because the difficulty if you witness them --
14 he cannot write the address out. His English is so poor
15 that he cannot write his address. So I went along with
16 him to the voter concerned, Mr Abdul Ahim(?) signed the
17 declaration of ID and then I help him to put the address
18 in. That is all I did. And Mr Ahim will confirm this.
19 THE COMMISSIONER: But if he has difficulty with English,
20 which is no criticism of him, but in those circumstances
21 would it not have been very much simpler, as you had the
22 voter in front of you, to say: I will witness it, all
23 I need to know is that this is the voter and I will put
24 my name and address on. It seems to be an odd way to go
25 about it. Do you follow?
44
1 A. This is not anything at all. If we go, I think
2 Mr Rahim, they want him to be there. They know who
3 he is because I am not familiar with them and Mr Rahim
4 is more familiar with them than myself.
5 THE COMMISSIONER: I see, there we are.
6 You see, one of the problems with this document,
7 which you may be aware of, is this: this is one of the
8 documents where the suggestion is that the person who
9 signed the voter's form as voter was not the same person
10 who signed the application to vote by post, do you see
11 the problem?
12 A. Can you repeat?
13 Q. The problem is, you see, that it is suggested that the
14 person who signed as the voter on the declaration of
15 identity is not necessarily the same person who signed
16 the application for a postal vote. So the suggestion
17 is that somebody's signature somewhere is a forgery.
18 A. Yes, but --
19 THE COMMISSIONER: Do you see the problem?
20 A. Yes, but the person who signed the application to vote,
21 because you are not there at the time when they sign it
22 because we do not have to be witness. But when you are
23 witnessing the declaration of identity, you must sign
24 with two witnesses so you can compare which one is right
25 when you are witnessing the signature on the declaration
45
1 of identity.
2 MR SUKUL: Mr Islam, could you look at the DOI 960? It is
3 in the name of the same gentleman.
4 THE COMMISSIONER: That means going back in the bundle.
5 MR SUKUL: It is staying with Mr Rahim.
6 THE COMMISSIONER: It is about a dozen documents or so back.
7 MR SUKUL: Sir, do you have that?
8 THE COMMISSIONER: No. 960 seems to be missing from mine.
9 This is a gentleman who lives at 61 Whitehead Road,
10 Aston?
11 MR SUKUL: I am afraid not. It is a gentleman who lives at
12 267 Frederick Road.
13 THE COMMISSIONER: They may be out of order. I have 962.
14 MR SUKUL: In fact 960, 61 and 62 are similar documents.
15 THE COMMISSIONER: Shall we look at 962? Is that
16 sufficient?
17 MR SUKUL: 962 will do. Do you see 962, Mr Islam? That DOI
18 and the witness on that DOI is the same Mr A Rahim that
19 we were speaking about. Do you see that?
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. You are not Mr A Rahim, are you?
22 A. No.
23 Q. The handwriting expert says that you signed the name of
24 A Rahim, did you sign the name of A Rahim?
25 A. In this there is a mistake.
46
1 Q. What mistake is there?
2 A. In the statement made by Mr A Rahim --
3 Q. Do not tell me what he says, tell me what you want to
4 say.
5 A. I wrote his name, this is a mistake.
6 Q. Did you write it or did you sign it?
7 A. It is (inaudible) because I was writing quite a number
8 of addresses for these witnesses and mistakenly I wrote
9 his name but he forget to sign but it is in his
10 presence.
11 Q. So to cut a long story short, Mr Islam, you forged
12 Mr Rahim's signature, did you not?
13 A. No, this is not a fraud.
14 Q. What do you do then?
15 A. It is his consent and he was there at the time and he
16 made a statement --
17 Q. Mr Islam, statements are matters for the court and the
18 learned Commissioner. I am suggesting to you that from
19 the evidence in front of me, evidence given by
20 a handwriting expert, evidence in front of you, DOI 962,
21 you forged Mr Rahims signature?
22 A. Never forged. I wrote his name mistakenly and he should
23 have signed by or cut it off and he should have signed
24 his signature on the side or whatever. But in both of
25 our parts it is a genuine mistake and he will confirm it
47
1 that he was not there.
2 Q. You made a genuine mistake with Mr Rahim how many times?
3 THE COMMISSIONER: Mr Rahim, you have told us, is one of
4 your team of helpers. That is right, is it not,
5 Mr Abdul Rahim is one of your team?
6 A. Yes.
7 MR SUKUL: He is, is he?
8 A. Yes.
9 THE COMMISSIONER: He is an old friend?
10 A. Yes.
11 THE COMMISSIONER: You have known him a long time?
12 A. Yes, a very long time.
13 MR SUKUL: Why did not your old friend not put his own
14 signature there, he is your helper, he is with you, he
15 is accompanying you on your campaign runs. Why could
16 your old friend not sign his own signature there?
17 A. This is a genuine mistake. Because of hurrying or
18 something I should have put his name on the -- where it
19 should be witness name, but I put on the wrong section
20 where he should sign and I just mistakenly put A Rahim
21 and he also forgot to sign and this is a mistake.
22 Q. All right Mr Islam. The reality is, is it not, that you
23 simply forged your old friend's name?
24 A. You ask Mr Rahim, he will confirm this personally.
25 Q. Let me show you another forgery. I will ask to you go
48
1 to DOI 2007. Just to go through that, 2007, it says:
2 "Name of witness, Kala Miah."
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. The handwriting expert says that you signed the name
5 Kala Miah and that you wrote the name of the witness
6 Kala Miah and that you wrote the address as well. Do
7 you agree with the handwriting expert?
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. So is Kala Miah also an old friend?
10 A. He will explain in the court.
11 THE COMMISSIONER: Kala Miah is also on your list of helpers
12 in paragraph 9; that is the same man, is it?
13 A. Yes.
14 THE COMMISSIONER: Could you look over two pages, at 2008.
15 That is absolutely identical and again the handwriting
16 expert considers that you not only wrote the name and
17 address but also the signature. Is that correct?
18 A. I just put his name, sir.
19 THE COMMISSIONER: Here we have two declarations of identity
20 both of them from somebody living at Bourn Mill Drive,
21 Aston. Can you explain what you are doing signing Kala
22 Miah's name?
23 A. Because Kala Miah cannot read or write. He was
24 witnessing about nine or ten witness declarations of
25 identity. I have to -- almost all of those I have to
49
1 help in writing the name and address and post code of
2 Mr Kala Miah.
3 THE COMMISSIONER: If Mr Kala Miah has difficulty in
4 writing, and no criticism of him for that, why on earth
5 do you have to write his name as witness when if you are
6 there you might just as well write your name and address
7 as witness and sign it. It seems to me a more obvious
8 thing to do. I am a bit baffled by this, to be
9 truthful.
10 A. Mr Kala Miah I think is very familiar again (inaudible)
11 because he is (inaudible). Probably the voter is not
12 very familiar with me and therefore he took me, if I
13 could help him witness those.
14 THE COMMISSIONER: The voter must have been very surprised
15 to see you writing Mr Kala Miah's signature.
16 MR SUKUL: Did Mr Kala Miah vote for the Labour Party? Did
17 he vote for you, Mr Kala Miah?
18 A. Kala Miah can say.
19 Q. So he would have filled in an application to vote by
20 post form, would he not? For him to be able to vote he
21 has to fill in a form?
22 THE COMMISSIONER: He could vote at a polling station.
23 MR SUKUL: Indeed he could. Did Mr Kala Miah vote by post?
24 A. I do not know.
25 Q. He was helping you, he is your friend, he is out with
50
1 you on your rounds. Are you telling in court you do not
2 know if he voted by post?
3 A. I cannot remember everything.
4 Q. Have a look at that DOI. The Kala Miah DOI.
5 THE COMMISSIONER: Look at 2008.
6 MR SUKUL: Let me show you something on 2008 and let me set
7 the scene for you on this 2008.
8 You have it in front of you?
9 A. Yes.
10 Q. Let me remind you of what you say. You say to this
11 court that you innocently signed or innocently wrote the
12 name Kala Miah. You did not intend to forge Kala Miah's
13 signature, did you?
14 A. Yes.
15 Q. All right. There are two places on the DOI where you
16 write the name Kala Miah. Do you see that? You do not
17 have the DOI in front of you?
18 THE COMMISSIONER: 2008 please. Do you have that?
19 A. Yes.
20 THE COMMISSIONER: Signature of witness and name of witness,
21 they both say Kala Miah. That is what Mr Sukul is
22 referring to.
23 MR SUKUL: Where it says "name of witness" you have written
24 Kala Miah.
25 A. Yes.
51
1 Q. Where it says, "signature of witness" you have changed
2 your handwriting a little bit there. Do you see, it is
3 in front of you?
4 A. Yes, yes.
5 Q. So if you had to just write the name Kala Miah, and then
6 you had to write the name Kala Miah, what made you
7 change your handwriting when you wrote one to the other
8 if that was for an innocent purpose? Why did you change
9 your handwriting, who were you trying to hide from, what
10 are you trying to hide?
11 A. There is not any special motive that in here I put
12 capital letters and on the top in small letters. This
13 is the way I write. This is natural as far as I am
14 concerned.
15 Q. The handwriting expert found you out, did he not? He
16 saw it was your hand?
17 A. The two signatures in here, it is an oversight and
18 Mr Kala Miah was there, he was witnessing, I put his
19 name. It is a genuine mistake because I completed
20 a number of, as you will see, a number of witnesses'
21 addresses and it is obviously one or two I make
22 a mistake because of an oversight and he was there and
23 did it in his presence and his consent and he will
24 confirm it.
25 Q. I am going to leave Kala Miah now.
52
1 THE COMMISSIONER: If you are going to leave Kala Miah,
2 shall we take the break now? We will take the break and
3 as this witness has been in the box for some time
4 I shall give him 15 minutes. Quarter past 12.
5 (12.00 pm)
6 (A short break)
7 (12.15 pm)
8 THE COMMISSIONER: Mr Coppel, for the avoidance of doubt,
9 the Member of Parliament who was mentioned earlier today
10 is Mr Roger Godsiff. Is he the member for Sparkbrook?
11 MR HAYES: Yes.
12 MR COPPEL: And Small Heath.
13 THE COMMISSIONER: Sparkbrook and Small Heath, thank you.
14 MR SUKUL: Mr Islam, during the break I saw you in
15 conversation with Mr Kazi. Were you discussing your
16 evidence?
17 A. No. Not whatsoever.
18 Q. Just discussing?
19 A. Nothing.
20 Q. Right. We were talking about your old friend. Let me
21 ask you about a man called Mr MD Ashab. Is he an old
22 friend?
23 A. Just a friend, yes.
24 Q. Was he a helper?
25 A. He has lived in Aston for a long time.
53
1 THE COMMISSIONER: Is he the Mr Mohammed Ashab who is in
2 paragraph 9 of your witness statement?
3 A. Yes.
4 MR SUKUL: Is he one of your helpers mentioned in the list
5 of helpers?
6 A. Yes.
7 Q. So far then, Rahim, Kala Miah and Ashab are all your
8 helpers?
9 A. Yes.
10 Q. Could you have a look then at 2019. The writing there,
11 name of witness, signature of witness, and address of
12 witness. That handwriting is yours, is it not?
13 A. Yes.
14 Q. Well, I see that you have signed the name MD Ashab.
15 THE COMMISSIONER: What number is that?
16 MR SUKUL: 2019.
17 THE COMMISSIONER: Is that still in the A?
18 MR SUKUL: Mystery B.
19 THE COMMISSIONER: I have that.
20 MR SUKUL: Mr Islam, what do you say about that, why is it
21 that you are signing the name of Mr Ashab?
22 A. The same as before. The mistake, genuine mistake.
23 It is what happened in the presence of Mr Ashab,
24 Mr Faruk and myself and the voter.
25 Q. So if it is a mistake, then it means that this DOI is
54
1 invalid, this vote is invalid, is it not?
2 A. That is for the court to decide.
3 Q. When you signed the name MD Ashab, what did you intend
4 to be the purpose of this DOI? What did you want the
5 DOI to do?
6 A. Just genuine mistake. We all make a mistake. If the
7 voter was asked, he will confirm that because
8 I witnessed -- put the witness name and address.
9 I admitted in my statement that 69 or so -- and these
10 are five or six. Coincidentally, Mr Ashab was there,
11 myself was there and Mr Faruk was there and the voter.
12 So I am not hiding anything.
13 Q. You mentioned before that one of the persons whose name
14 you signed could not sign or could not write.
15 A. He can sign but it is for him too difficult writing his
16 address, spelling his address.
17 THE COMMISSIONER: If you look two documents further on,
18 we seem to have an application to vote by post actually
19 in the name of Mr Mohammed Ashab of Emscote Road.
20 It seems there that this gentleman has signed with
21 a cross, against which someone has put his name in block
22 capitals.
23 Two documents on, application to vote by post.
24 There are two applications to vote by post. Forget the
25 first one. Look at the second one, Ashab Mohammed.
55
1 Do you have that?
2 A. Yes. Mohammed Ashab. It is his signature.
3 THE COMMISSIONER: In fact it looks like a cross.
4 A. (inaudible). It is his signature.
5 THE COMMISSIONER: I see. There we are.
6 MR SUKUL: Mr Islam, next to the cross on the application to
7 vote by post where M Ashab is written, who wrote that?
8 A. Mr Ashab.
9 Q. And all the handwriting at the top of the form, in the
10 middle of the form, Mr Ashab wrote all of that as well?
11 Have a look at the form.
12 A. The application form?
13 Q. Yes, he wrote all of that, did he?
14 A. Yes.
15 Q. So Mr Ashab is capable of writing, he is capable of
16 writing and signing, is he not?
17 A. Yes, you can sign, but it is not his handwriting, the
18 form is not his handwriting.
19 Q. How do you know it is not his handwriting?
20 A. I can see it is my handwriting.
21 Q. You wrote on this form as well?
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. You made Mr Ashab's application to vote by post?
24 A. Yes.
25 Q. But is that not illegal?
56
1 A. Provided I help him to fill the form and sign it --
2 it is his signature.
3 Q. But he made a cross there.
4 A. No. No cross.
5 Q. So you filled in the application to vote by post and he
6 signed his name?
7 A. Yes. I take it, you know, to show that he signed.
8 Q. If he can sign on his application, why did he not sign
9 on the DOI?
10 A. He did most of the case, but --
11 Q. I am asking you why did he not sign on the DOI if he can
12 sign his application? Why?
13 A. It was a mistake, genuine mistake.
14 Q. A mistake?
15 A. Yes.
16 Q. You signed it instead?
17 A. No, I did not sign. I put his name, but he should have
18 signed.
19 THE COMMISSIONER: This is all very mysterious and I am sure
20 you can help me, Mr Islam. We have 2019, the first one
21 that you looked at, which is the signature of voter B
22 Miah, signature of witness MD Ashab, which is the one
23 you have written, which you said you wrote.
24 If we look at the next document, which is the
25 application to vote by post, you will see that the
57
1 gentleman living at 62 Bromfield Road is Mr Boshir Miah.
2 A. Yes.
3 THE COMMISSIONER: If you turn on two more pages you will
4 come to 2020, declaration of identity.
5 A. Yes.
6 THE COMMISSIONER: This is a document relating to
7 a Mr Khalid Rahman who also appears to live at 62
8 Bromfield Close. On this occasion, Mr Miah, who was the
9 voter in 2019, now appears as the witness. Are you with
10 me?
11 A. Yes.
12 THE COMMISSIONER: But for some reason his name and address
13 again appear to be written in your handwriting, and
14 indeed the signature is very strange because the
15 signature has something crossed out, it then has Boshir
16 Mir in block capitals; is that written by you?
17 A. I written and then he signed.
18 THE COMMISSIONER: Then you have B Mir in very shaky
19 handwriting on the right. The slight problem here is
20 this: if you look at the signature of voter on that
21 document, 2020, and the signature of voter on the
22 application to vote, which is the next document, they
23 do not look very like each other.
24 A. When the application to vote was filled in I was not
25 there, sir, so I have no idea.
58
1 THE COMMISSIONER: There we are.
2 MR SUKUL: Just one more then, Mr Islam. DOI 746.
3 THE COMMISSIONER: 0746?
4 MR SUKUL: Yes. Do you have that, Mr Islam?
5 A. Yes.
6 Q. That is your handwriting on that DOI, is it not?
7 A. Yes, the bottom part, yes.
8 Q. Where it says:
9 "MH Ali, 9 Albert Road, Aston, Birmingham."
10 The handwriting expert seems to think that is your
11 handwriting. You are not at 746?
12 A. This is not my handwriting. The name of the witness,
13 it is my handwriting and the address.
14 THE COMMISSIONER: And the signature.
15 A. Yes. Signature is not mine, sir.
16 THE COMMISSIONER: The signature is identical to the name of
17 the witness.
18 A. No, sir.
19 MR SUKUL: But just by looking at it alone, it appears as
20 though the signature and the name --
21 THE COMMISSIONER: No, signature of witness. Signature of
22 witness MH Ali and name of witness MH Ali; did you write
23 both of those? This is on 746.
24 A. 746, I am sorry.
25 THE COMMISSIONER: We are on the wrong one. You see
59
1 signature of witness, MH Ali, name of witness, MH Ali,
2 address of witness, an address in Albert Road, is that
3 you?
4 A. In this case he put his name on the signature and he put
5 his name as well, name of the witness, and then I put
6 Albert Road, Aston, Birmingham.
7 THE COMMISSIONER: The handwriting expert seems to think
8 that you wrote all the witness bit. Is that not right?
9 A. MH Ali is written by Mr Ali and his name on the bottom
10 also he did and the rest I completed.
11 THE COMMISSIONER: Who is Mr MH Ali?
12 A. He lived in -- used to live at 9 Albert Road and he had
13 a stroke and he went to Bangladesh in December.
14 THE COMMISSIONER: Ah. Somebody seems to think that he is
15 somebody who is not on the electoral register at 9
16 Albert Road, Aston.
17 A. Probably sir, but he was living at that address.
18 MR SUKUL: In fact, sir, it is at page 821. He is not
19 registered there. If we have to look at it, it is at
20 page 821, the fact that he is not registered as a voter
21 at that address, I cannot say on this.
22 THE COMMISSIONER: Mr Islam, we have here an MH Ali who is
23 not on the voters' register, who you tell us has gone to
24 Bangladesh and therefore cannot be traced. Somebody of
25 a suspicious turn of mind, Mr Islam, might possibly
60
1 suggest -- I am sure you would like to answer this --
2 that MH Ali does not exist and is you under another
3 name?
4 A. No, he used to live a long, long time at 9 Albert Road.
5 He went to Bangladesh because he had a stroke and he got
6 no children, only his wife and himself, and they went to
7 Bangladesh in December last year.
8 THE COMMISSIONER: You see, if we do not have an address for
9 him and we do not have a name for him, you would agree
10 with me that there are probably a million Muslims called
11 MH Ali?
12 A. When I contacted the landlord, he confirmed that he (?)
13 was living at that address.
14 THE COMMISSIONER: There we are, Mr Sukul.
15 MR SUKUL: Just to summarise then, Mr Islam, and I am
16 referring to the handwriting report, the report says
17 that you signed your name, 1, as MS Islam, 2, Nazrul
18 Islam, 3, MN Islam, 4, N Islam, and 5, Mohammed Nazrul
19 Islam. These are five signatures bearing the surname
20 Islam that you have used, do you accept that?
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. So you have adopted five variations of the Islam
23 signature?
24 A. Yes.
25 Q. And then as far as the forgeries, the petitioners say,
61
1 are concerned, you forged the name of MH Ali, you forged
2 the name of A Rahim, you forged the name of Kali Miah
3 and you forged the name of MD Ashab?
4 A. There is no forgery whatsoever. If you go to the voter,
5 if you go to these people whose -- I put their name and
6 address in, they will confirm that there is no evidence
7 that I was ... that in my mind there is a forgery or any
8 (indistinct word) I did.
9 Q. Let me now take you to a place that you went to on
10 8th June of last year, and according to yourself you sat
11 there and had some refreshments. Do you remember that?
12 THE COMMISSIONER: The warehouse.
13 MR SUKUL: You said in your statement, was it you, that
14 refreshments were served. The very fact that you sat
15 there and refreshments were served indicates to any
16 reasonable person that you intended to spend some time
17 there that night.
18 A. No. I was there about 20 minutes or so.
19 Q. So why are you sitting there, taking drinks and making
20 yourself comfortable?
21 A. What do you mean "comfortable"? I went there.
22 Then I sat there and said hello. He introduced his
23 brother and son.
24 Q. The truth is that you were looking forward to quite
25 a long night at the warehouse, were you not, Mr Islam?
62
1 A. None whatsoever.
2 Q. Sitting there, taking drinks, chatting on the sofa,
3 a big table, votes everywhere?
4 A. No.
5 Q. You and six colleagues chatting away, waiting for your
6 colleagues to arrive, receiving phone calls? Do you
7 remember that? A few calls came from the campaign
8 office. Do you remember that night, Mr Islam?
9 A. I never --
10 Q. Checking on you to see how the voting thing was going?
11 A. All made up.
12 Q. Let us see who has made up what. I would like to take
13 this one stage at a time. Your evidence is, according
14 to your statement, that the circumstances that led up to
15 the decision to take the votes away from the campaign
16 office, those circumstances were that yourself and your
17 colleagues felt frightened because Ayoub Khan's brothers
18 were in a car parked outside. Is that what you say?
19 Is that your case?
20 A. Yes. Because I noticed during the day they were also
21 around this office and I was told, and I saw myself as
22 well -- that did (sic) not all, and in the night time if
23 somebody is there then it would be obvious that we
24 should be very concerned about any envelopes left in the
25 campaign office. We should be very concerned.
63
1 Q. Was there any other occasion, Mr Islam, when you felt
2 that the votes were not secured so that you had to take
3 the votes away from the campaign office to any other
4 location, or was that the only time?
5 A. No, I have not any other secure better than this place.
6 Q. That was the only time you felt it necessary to take the
7 votes away from the campaign office?
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. In fact it is true, is it not, that that campaign office
10 is -- those premises there, it says "Top Style".
11 They are shop premises, are they not?
12 A. Yes.
13 Q. It is usual for shop premises to be properly alarmed,
14 is that not right?
15 A. No, (inaudible) clothes (?) and we just used it as
16 a campaign office at that time.
17 Q. But the alarm system is still in there, is it not?
18 A. No, it is not working.
19 Q. It is not working?
20 A. No.
21 Q. But it is there though?
22 A. I do not know, I never --
23 Q. It is your shop?
24 A. No.
25 Q. It is not your shop?
64
1 A. It is now my shop, but at that time it was a local shop.
2 THE COMMISSIONER: Whose shop is it?
3 A. I rent it, sir, it is my rented shop.
4 THE COMMISSIONER: So you rent the shop that is used as the
5 party headquarters?
6 A. Yes, it was clothes. We did not need (?) that at that
7 time.
8 THE COMMISSIONER: Mr Islam, I would like to get the picture
9 in my mind. Are you saying it was your belief that if
10 you left these envelopes in your lock-up shop that the
11 Liberal Party would carry out a burglary and break into
12 that shop and steal those votes, is that what you are
13 saying you suspected?
14 A. That shop was using at that time -- three weeks of the
15 polling day, we are using the campaign office at that
16 address.
17 THE COMMISSIONER: But you see what I am getting at,
18 Mr Islam, you are saying you did not think it was safe
19 to leave these envelopes in your office.
20 A. Yes.
21 THE COMMISSIONER: It follows from that that if they are not
22 safe, it is because you think that someone is going to
23 break in and burgle the premises and take them away?
24 Is that your belief?
25 A. It could have been, yes.
65
1 THE COMMISSIONER: It is not could have been; what you have
2 told us about, and what Mr Sukul is asking about,
3 is that somebody takes a decision that all these
4 envelopes will be taken in the middle of the night to
5 a warehouse on an industrial estate when there would be
6 nobody there, and the reason for this is that you are
7 afraid to leave them in campaign headquarters.
8 A. Yes.
9 THE COMMISSIONER: I think, do you agree with me, that it
10 must follow from that that you thought if you left them
11 in the campaign headquarters somebody would burgle it
12 and take them away; is that what you thought?
13 A. That is right.
14 THE COMMISSIONER: So you thought that Mr Ayoub Khan and his
15 friends and family were going to carry out a burglary in
16 this well-lit street in Aston on the night of the 8th?
17 A. This shop is the -- not double (?) lit (?). It is
18 a very ordinary shop.
19 THE COMMISSIONER: Yes, we have seen a photograph of it.
20 A. And we were concerned. Obviously, sir, it is our
21 responsibility that the ballots (?) will come, the
22 envelope in the campaign office. We should think of
23 security and we could have left it in the campaign
24 office, but when Mr Zulfikar Khan said that night that
25 he was suspicious somebody was there, then we became
66
1 more concerned that we should do something about it.
2 The campaign office itself, in the middle of the
3 night --
4 THE COMMISSIONER: Mr Islam, what I do not quite understand
5 is this, and again I am sure I am just being very dim,
6 but how would Mr Ayoub Khan and his supporters know that
7 you had got votes in the campaign headquarters to make
8 it worth burgling? Do you mean just break in on the
9 off-chance that you might have some votes there?
10 A. Because during the day my campaign workers who were
11 around in the office told us -- and also myself seeing
12 that they are all the time around, because they should
13 be busy with their campaign. Obviously we were a bit
14 concerned about it, probably they are watching some
15 envelope people bringing in and things like that.
16 THE COMMISSIONER: You see, Mr Islam --
17 A. For the safe side of it, we thought it is better ...
18 THE COMMISSIONER: Forgive me. What you wanted to look
19 after were ballot papers that you had collected from
20 voters?
21 A. Yes.
22 THE COMMISSIONER: Right. The fact that you did not want to
23 keep them in the campaign headquarters was because you
24 did not think that was secure?
25 A. (Witness nods)
67
1 THE COMMISSIONER: So obviously you must have thought that
2 if you kept them there, someone might break in and take
3 them.
4 A. That is right.
5 THE COMMISSIONER: But how would anybody know that you had
6 ballot papers in the campaign headquarters to make it
7 worth burgling?
8 A. Normally in other days, the agent, he used to deliver
9 these envelopes to the election office, but on this
10 particular day he could not attend the campaign office
11 and could not collect it, and obviously, there would be
12 some envelopes. Anybody can watch people bringing in,
13 it is not hiding or anything. You bring envelopes and
14 give it to the official or whoever sitting in the
15 office.
16 THE COMMISSIONER: How does anyone know that what you are
17 taking into the office are ballot papers that you have
18 collected from voters? How would anybody know this?
19 A. These ballots not only we are collecting, people are
20 also bringing them in themselves. They are bringing
21 in the open. Anybody can see that, (inaudible) brought
22 it into the campaign office.
23 THE COMMISSIONER: Had this happened on earlier days or only
24 on the 8th?
25 A. Other days, as said, the campaign agent and the --
68
1 sorry, the agent used to deliver to the election office,
2 at 4 o'clock, half past, something like that. But on
3 that day he was not well or something and he was
4 campaigning in Newtown somewhere and he did not come
5 to the office and the envelope has remained there.
6 That was our concern.
7 THE COMMISSIONER: Mr Sukul?
8 MR SUKUL: Mr Islam, you know this shop quite well. It is
9 your shop, is it not, or was it not?
10 A. Yes.
11 Q. It is right, is it not, that there is a huge solid steel
12 shutter that comes all the way down to the front of the
13 shop. It is at page 700, in fact page 699.
14 THE COMMISSIONER: This is volume 3, so put that volume
15 away. You will not need that again. Get out volume 3.
16 699 is a photograph of the Top Style shop, which is the
17 one -- do you have it? 699.
18 MR SUKUL: The page before. It is a photograph across the
19 street with a bus stop.
20 Sir, he is on the wrong page.
21 THE COMMISSIONER: There we are. Top Style is the premises?
22 A. It is, yes.
23 THE COMMISSIONER: What Mr Sukul was pointing out is
24 if we look at the photograph we will see a metal shutter
25 which is down across the front of the shop, as it is on
69
1 all the other premises in that row of shops.
2 A. It is, yes.
3 THE COMMISSIONER: So anybody who wished to break into the
4 premises would have to get through that middle shutter.
5 A. Yes. The lock is not working.
6 THE COMMISSIONER: You might know that, but the burglar
7 would not, would he?
8 A. The lock is corroded and is not working, but anybody can
9 pull it. I am here, anybody can go and check it. You
10 will find that anybody can pull it.
11 THE COMMISSIONER: This is quite a busy road, is it not?
12 A. It is.
13 THE COMMISSIONER: And it is a bus route.
14 A. Yes.
15 THE COMMISSIONER: We have heard it is quite well lit,
16 is that right?
17 A. Yes.
18 THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you.
19 MR SUKUL: Mr Islam, we also heard that on the next page --
20 turn to the next page. Page 700. If you look in the
21 middle left-hand side of the page, you will see
22 a building there, a brick building. Do you see it?
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. Do you see the brick building?
25 A. Yes.
70
1 Q. There is a post, a dark-coloured post, about three
2 quarters of an inch away from the left-hand side of
3 the page.
4 A. (inaudible).
5 Q. Pardon?
6 A. Is it the third (?) one?
7 THE COMMISSIONER: Which picture are we on, 700?
8 MR SUKUL: 700.
9 THE COMMISSIONER: I am not sure I know which brick building
10 you are referring to.
11 MR SUKUL: The one with the black V-shaped roof.
12 THE COMMISSIONER: On the left of the photograph with
13 the black pole in front of it. I cannot see what it is.
14 It does not look like a lamp post, what is it?
15 MR SUKUL: Tell us what it is, Mr Islam. Tell us what is at
16 the top of that post.
17 A. It is by the bus stop.
18 THE COMMISSIONER: If you look here, Mr Islam. You see the
19 building, this building here, on the other side of the
20 road from your shop. Then there is a large black pole
21 here. What is that?
22 A. It looks like a camera or something.
23 THE COMMISSIONER: It is a surveillance camera, is it?
24 A. Yes.
25 MR SUKUL: "It looks like a camera or something." Is it?
71
1 It is right then, Mr Islam, that night and day
2 police officers sit comfortably in their control room
3 and they keep an eye on the front of your shop where
4 the shutters are not working. Is that right?
5 A. I cannot --
6 Q. Please tell the court why do you still believe that the
7 Khan mob can go and burgle that place?
8 A. I cannot be sure if the camera was there at that time,
9 was installed or not. I am not sure.
10 Q. Stolen? Somebody could have stolen the camera?
11 A. No, installed.
12 THE COMMISSIONER: On the other hand, although I have never
13 actively contemplated burglary as a profession, it would
14 seem to me that a deserted warehouse estate in the
15 middle of the night might offer rather easier pickings
16 than a well-lit, camera-surveillanced road in the middle
17 of Aston. You see the point that is being made?
18 A. Yes.
19 MR SUKUL: In front of which is a bus stop. We probably
20 might find out later that there is a night bus or buses
21 that run along there. Do you still maintain, Mr Islam,
22 bearing in mind all that you have heard that you still
23 considered there was a risk that the Khan brothers would
24 have burgled your campaign office and stole your votes?
25 A. Yes, I would be concerned if there was ballots in the
72
1 shop at that time, in the campaign office. I would
2 still be concerned, yes.
3 Q. Do you feel intimidated by Mr Ayoub Khan who sits on my
4 left and his brothers?
5 A. Pardon?
6 Q. Do you feel frightened by this man and his brothers?
7 A. I cannot comment on this.
8 Q. Either you are frightened, scared of them, or you are
9 not.
10 THE COMMISSIONER: I would stick with that answer, if I were
11 you, Mr Sukul.
12 Another matter that has been slightly concerning me
13 is this: your account of these votes is that it was
14 decided for security reasons that they would be taken to
15 these premises on the industrial estate and put in
16 a safe?
17 A. Yes.
18 THE COMMISSIONER: What slightly surprises me is why it
19 takes six people to do it. Because we hear that there
20 are six people in the warehouse, certainly the police
21 seem to find six people when they got there, and we have
22 heard there were a number of cars coming and going.
23 I just wondered why it took so many people to put these
24 275 votes in a safe.
25 A. Sir, myself and, as I mentioned, Mr Amin Kazi, my
73
1 colleague, and Mr Zulfikar Khan, we went to the
2 warehouse a little behind one another and then we went
3 to the warehouse and there were Mr Najib and his son
4 and his brother. I met them for the first time. I do
5 not think they have anything to do with this particular
6 issue, his son and brother.
7 I went there to just check whether he has arrived
8 safely and then I was coming in 20 minutes because
9 Mr Najib -- because I left people in my campaign office
10 and they are sitting down and it is getting late and
11 mobile ringing and Mr Najib said, "I will drop you
12 there", and when he came out, two police officers were
13 there.
14 So if anything -- any suspicions what we are doing
15 there, then I should not have been coming to my campaign
16 office, I should be there for a long time.
17 THE COMMISSIONER: One of the things that the police
18 officers did not say, I do not think, but I will be
19 corrected if I am wrong, is they did not say that
20 anybody had complained to them that you were afraid of
21 people burgling your shop.
22 A. Yes.
23 THE COMMISSIONER: Did you actually mention that to the
24 police?
25 A. We cannot complain to the police for this sort of thing.
74
1 The police have a lot of business to do. They are busy
2 with so many things that you cannot say somebody is
3 watching us and then they come, because if you are
4 colliding (?) with somebody you can involve with the
5 police.
6 THE COMMISSIONER: I think the reason why I ask is this: you
7 are in this warehouse and, on your account of it,
8 you are there entirely obviously, entirely respectably,
9 and suddenly four police officers arrive at 1.30 in the
10 morning. Clearly, an alarming thing to happen.
11 I just wondered why nobody seems to have said to the
12 police officers "We have got these envelopes here
13 because we are frightened that the campaign office will
14 be burgled", which is what one would imagine one would
15 have said to the police officers.
16 Mr Hayes, am I wrong about this, have I got the
17 wrong end of the stick?
18 MR HAYES: Up to a point, sir, because you will recall that
19 the officers did not take notes, so we do not really
20 know what was said.
21 THE COMMISSIONER: That is true, but nobody, I think, put to
22 the police officers that that explanation had been
23 given.
24 MR HAYES: Because they gave their statements a day before
25 this hearing.
75
1 THE COMMISSIONER: Yes, I follow that, Mr Hayes. Anyway,
2 that simply remains on the table.
3 Mr Sukul?
4 MR SUKUL: Sir, just to stretch that point a little bit
5 further, the officers were at will in the course of the
6 discussion we had with them to add to what they have
7 said. They said they were given certain information
8 at the warehouse, which I will come to in a moment. My
9 point is this: if the officers were told in fact, indeed
10 it is your point as well, if the officers were told by
11 anybody at the warehouse on the night that they were
12 frightened that the votes were going to be stolen then
13 I think common sense and reasoning dictates that the
14 officers would have told us that.
15 THE COMMISSIONER: I think that is a matter of comment which
16 you can address me on, and Mr Hayes has his counter
17 point on that. Leave that for argument, I think, rather
18 than for the witness.
19 MR SUKUL: Quite so.
20 Mr Islam, you have not really answered the learned
21 Commissioner's question. Why was it necessary to have
22 six men to lift one bag to put it in one safe in one
23 premises? Why was it necessary to have six men there
24 simply to do that job?
25 A. I think Mr Najib went to the warehouse, he had no key
76
1 with him. He had to call his son and brother to come
2 with the key to open the shop.
3 Q. So why did the son not open the shop, "Father, you may
4 enter", and leave? Why did the son stay there?
5 THE COMMISSIONER: He might have to lock up again.
6 A. They live in the same house; they live, I think, at the
7 same address. If they want to go, three of them
8 together, I cannot comment on that.
9 THE COMMISSIONER: We know, I think, Mr Islam, that at that
10 warehouse -- we know certainly that you were there
11 because you say you were and a number of police officers
12 said you were there because you are distinctive with
13 your beard. We know or at least we believe that your
14 fellow respondent Mr Kazi is there and Mr Zulfikar is
15 there, is that right?
16 A. (Witness nods).
17 THE COMMISSIONER: There is a dispute, obviously, as to
18 whether Councillor Afzal is there, but if Councillor
19 Afzal is not there then somebody who looks very like him
20 is there, so that is somebody else. So we have got you,
21 Mr Kazi, Mr Zulfikar, a mystery person who may or may
22 not be Councillor Afzal. We have got the gentleman who
23 owns the --
24 MR SUKUL: Najib.
25 THE COMMISSIONER: And his son and his brother. So there
77
1 are seven people there.
2 A. (Witness nods). Myself and Mr Kazi, according to me,
3 what I know, and Mr Zulfikar and Mr Najib, and his son
4 and his brother.
5 THE COMMISSIONER: Which is the one who may look a bit like
6 Councillor Afzal?
7 A. I cannot comment on that.
8 THE COMMISSIONER: Mr Islam, I will not ask any further
9 questions on that. Mr Sukul may, but I will not.
10 MR SUKUL: I just wanted to ask before we -- you know
11 Mr Afzal, do you not?
12 A. Yes I do.
13 Q. And he was there that night at the warehouse?
14 A. As far as I am aware, as long as I was there, he was not
15 there.
16 Q. Do you take the view then that the lady police officer
17 has got it wrong?
18 A. Pardon?
19 THE COMMISSIONER: It is a matter of comment.
20 MR SUKUL: When you were about to leave the warehouse --
21 you remember that?
22 A. (Witness nods).
23 Q. You told us in your statement that one of the police
24 officers, in fact you said the sergeant, gave you a lift
25 home.
78
1 A. Yes, the second time.
2 Q. Is that a mistake that you have made, then, because he
3 did not take you home, did he?
4 A. He might have forgotten. I do not know, I cannot
5 comment on those.
6 Q. Your evidence before this court is that the police
7 sergeant put you in his motor car, a police official
8 vehicle. He said, "Mr Islam, sit here. Let me take you
9 to your residence." That is what you want this court to
10 believe?
11 A. I cannot comment, but I remember he left me at my house.
12 Q. The truth is that you simply said that in your statement
13 to make yourself look good. The police officers are
14 helping you, which means that you are a good man.
15 That is the impression you want to create to this court,
16 is it not?
17 A. No, no.
18 Q. But it is an outright lie, is it not?
19 A. No.
20 Q. Let me ask you this about the part that you played at
21 the warehouse.
22 THE COMMISSIONER: May I ask, Mr Sukul, you have a number of
23 further questions to ask?
24 MR SUKUL: A few.
25 THE COMMISSIONER: We are almost at 1 o'clock. Mr Islam has
79
1 had a long time in the witness box. Mr Hayes will
2 almost certainly want to re-examine him. We had better
3 resume him at 2 o'clock.
4 MR HAYES: Sir, what I propose to do next, subject to what
5 you think is helpful, is to call Mr Kazi. I obviously
6 have not closed.
7 THE COMMISSIONER: I take you as presenting their case in
8 tandem. You will call Mr Kazi and obviously then
9 consider your future line of witnesses after that.
10 I would encourage that.
11 MR HAYES: I am greatly obliged.
12 THE COMMISSIONER: You have burned no boats with your other
13 witnesses. If at the end of your evidence you were to
14 say, "I do not intend to call any further witnesses",
15 that is fine. But if you do, then you make your
16 application.
17 MR HAYES: I think it might be helpful for you to hear from
18 this Mrs Miah, not the famous Mrs Mir, and some of the
19 others.
20 THE COMMISSIONER: My appetite is whetted ...
21 (1.00 pm)
22 (The Short Adjournment)
23 (2.00 pm)
24 THE COMMISSIONER: Do you have any further questions for the
25 witness?
80
1 MR SUKUL: I do, sir.
2 Mr Islam, just to take a minute to set the scene.
3 We just completed some questions concerning intimidation
4 by Ayoub Khan and his people and we were at the point
5 now where you are about to leave the campaign office
6 with these envelopes, as you put it, and you are worried
7 about the security of these envelopes. That is right,
8 is it not?
9 A. Yes.
10 Q. Well, I am only going on what you have said in your
11 statement. At the time when you are leaving the
12 campaign office, it is midnight, is it not, the midnight
13 hour?
14 A. Yes, it is nearly.
15 Q. At about 12 midnight, at paragraph 30, Mr Zulfikar
16 and Mr Kazi left the office with a bag containing the
17 envelopes. Were you with them?
18 A. No.
19 Q. Just those two men alone with this important bag, 275
20 postal ballots?
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. You know about that?
23 A. Yes, they were two, yes.
24 Q. So that I have it right, it is 12 o'clock at night and
25 Mr Zulfikar and Mr Kazi have the bag, just the two of
81
1 them alone, they take it in the car and make their way
2 to the warehouse?
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. You saw that?
5 A. Yes.
6 Q. If you were so worried about these 275 envelopes you
7 do not look round to see if the Khan brothers are there
8 and make sure you can give some physical support, some
9 kind of security support. Why did you not do that if
10 you were so worried about the security?
11 A. They are getting into the car not very far in front of
12 the campaign office, and I can watch that they are
13 getting into the car.
14 Q. This bag that had the votes in it, one man was able to
15 carry the bag, was he?
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. The plan was to put the bag in the safe?
18 A. No.
19 Q. What was the plan then?
20 A. It will be once -- it will go there, it will be counted,
21 and it will be put into the safe eventually.
22 Q. Okay. And it was important, you think, for the number
23 of envelopes to be counted?
24 A. Yes.
25 THE COMMISSIONER: At what stage was it suggested that they
82
1 be counted, when you were at the headquarters or when
2 you were at the warehouse?
3 A. At the headquarters.
4 MR SUKUL: But you had had those envelopes there since
5 6 o'clock according to you. 6 o'clock that evening the
6 envelopes were at headquarters. You left at midnight,
7 that is six hours later. Why did you not count them
8 during the six hours that you had them?
9 A. I did not remain there since 12 o'clock because I had to
10 go to the prayer and things like that.
11 Q. I am reading from paragraph 25. You say this:
12 "I returned to the campaign office at around 6 pm
13 and I was told by the person who was in the office that
14 he had received some sealed envelopes, some of which was
15 dropped in by individual voters and some collected by
16 campaign workers."
17 These must be the envelopes that were put into the
18 bag that was taken to the warehouse?
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. So you had them there at 6 o'clock, you arrived at
21 6 o'clock. Each vote is important to you, is it not?
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. All right. So the number of votes that you have present
24 at 6 o'clock in the campaign office, that quantity, that
25 number of votes must be something of some importance
83
1 to you, is that not right?
2 A. I am sitting down there and --
3 Q. Is it important to you?
4 A. I was not sitting down. I left --
5 Q. Mr Islam, I am not asking if you were sitting down.
6 I am asking if it was important to you. These are votes
7 that you say were in sealed envelopes. Were those votes
8 important to you?
9 A. Yes, they were.
10 Q. So you have them there at 6 o'clock, you decide to move
11 them at 12 o'clock, the votes are important. Why did
12 you not count them between 6 o'clock and 12 o'clock?
13 A. Because there is another incident that happened about
14 half past 11.
15 Q. Why did you not count them between 6 o'clock and 11.30?
16 A. What do you mean by that?
17 Q. I mean exactly that. What stopped you from counting
18 these votes, that are so important to you, between
19 6 o'clock and half past 11? Why wait until you go to
20 the warehouse at midnight to count them?
21 A. During my office hours, campaign officials, why should
22 we count it? It is in our hands.
23 THE COMMISSIONER: What I am not quite clear about,
24 Mr Islam, is this: why do you need to count them at all?
25 A. I did not count them, sir.
84
1 THE COMMISSIONER: You mentioned them being counted. I just
2 wondered why anyone needed to count them.
3 A. We did not count in the office. But once we went there,
4 Mr Najib told me it would be better if we can count
5 these and he will collect it in the morning and this is
6 the sensible thing to do, and I think he did not do
7 anything wrong by saying that.
8 THE COMMISSIONER: What sort of bag were these envelopes
9 taken in, can you remember?
10 A. A big bag, a cheap bag, like one pound in any market.
11 A plastic -- sort of ordinary plastic bag.
12 MR SUKUL: Mr Islam, there was no decision taken to count
13 these votes at all, was there? It is not true that you
14 took the votes to the warehouse and had to count them?
15 A. What I said, it is true.
16 Q. Tell me this: did you not trust Mr Najib, that he will
17 keep all 275 for you and give them back to you the next
18 day?
19 A. I would trust him, but he said it is better if you can
20 count it and leave it, and in the morning you come in
21 and you take the same. It is the sensible thing to do.
22 Q. Mr Najib decided?
23 A. I asked him if he (?) can count these.
24 Q. You were there when the count was going on?
25 A. No, just before the counting started I came out because
85
1 I got a telephone call from my campaign office because
2 I left people in there. That is why I had to come back.
3 Q. What sort of time do you think you arrived at the
4 warehouse, five past 12, ten past 12?
5 A. Around midnight.
6 Q. And the count had already started?
7 A. No, the count had not started. Just Zulfikar pulled
8 these from the bag on the table.
9 THE COMMISSIONER: So that I get the picture clear, you go
10 to the warehouse for the first time and then while
11 you are there and the bag is emptied on the table you
12 then get a telephone call to go back to the campaign
13 office.
14 A. Yes.
15 THE COMMISSIONER: So you then go back to the campaign
16 office, and by the time you get back to the warehouse
17 the police are already there.
18 A. I did not go to the campaign office, sir.
19 THE COMMISSIONER: You went home?
20 A. No, when I went out there are two PCs who stopped me.
21 THE COMMISSIONER: It was when you were on your way out to
22 go back to the office that you then saw the police
23 officers?
24 A. Yes.
25 MR SUKUL: And the count was going on at that time?
86
1 A. No, I do not know, I was not there at the time.
2 THE COMMISSIONER: The impression the police officers
3 gave -- and I am not sure this was challenged, but I am
4 happy to be corrected on this -- was that when the
5 police officers went into the warehouse, the six men
6 they described, including yourself, were already inside.
7 I do not recollect any of the police officers saying
8 that they had found you outside the warehouse and then
9 gone back in with you. Do you see what I mean?
10 What you describe is that you are about to get into the
11 car, the police come, and the police and you go back up
12 to the room where the people are with the envelopes.
13 That is a little different from the way the police
14 recollect it.
15 A. These two lady police officers asked Mr Najib, "What
16 you are doing here? Is it your place?", and he said,
17 "Yes, it is my warehouse and we are doing some work".
18 She said, "Can I have a look?" and Mr Najib said, "Yes,
19 of course".
20 THE COMMISSIONER: But Mr Najib was going to drive you back
21 to your office?
22 A. Yes.
23 THE COMMISSIONER: Leaving everybody else back in his
24 warehouse.
25 A. Yes.
87
1 MR HAYES: I do recall, and I may be wrong, that my learned
2 friend Mr Sukul in the unscripted part of his opening
3 suggested that Mr Islam was outside. There was a spin
4 put on it that he was trying to run away. I think that
5 is right, is it not?
6 MR SUKUL: I cannot remember.
7 MR HAYES: We can turn it up.
8 THE COMMISSIONER: I must say I do not remember that, but if
9 it is there, it is in the transcript. I do not recall
10 the officers saying that, and the impression I got from
11 the officers was that they go into the warehouse and the
12 six men are already there with the documents on the
13 table.
14 MR HAYES: Again, the difficulty was that no-one took
15 a record.
16 THE COMMISSIONER: And everyone is relying on memory.
17 MR HAYES: Exactly.
18 MR SUKUL: Mr Islam, so far as you can remember, you arrived
19 at the warehouse just about the midnight hour, a few
20 minutes after, and then you were making your way out of
21 the warehouse to go elsewhere, yes? You spent a little
22 time at the warehouse, then you were making your way to
23 go somewhere.
24 A. That was not the case.
25 Q. So you would have spent about 25 minutes in the
88
1 warehouse?
2 A. About 20 minutes or so.
3 Q. And whilst you were there for the 20 minutes, the bag
4 had been emptied on the long table and the votes were
5 being counted?
6 A. Once I came out, I do not know who was counting and what
7 is going on.
8 THE COMMISSIONER: I see.
9 MR SUKUL: You did not take part in counting?
10 A. No.
11 Q. You did not have an interest in how many --
12 A. No, because my telephone call -- because I left people
13 over there and they know that I come for a few minutes
14 to make sure that they have arrived safely and things
15 like that. I was there about 20 minutes. I had a drink
16 there, then I come back and Mr Najib asked me to
17 (inaudible).
18 Q. When the police officers came, you went back into the
19 warehouse?
20 A. Yes, she followed the steps and went to the office.
21 I was there as well.
22 Q. Did the police officers stop you from going where you
23 were going when first they saw you?
24 A. They said, "We will give you a lift. Can you wait there
25 a few minutes?"
89
1 Q. The lady police officer said that to you?
2 A. Yes.
3 Q. But she did not give you a lift home?
4 A. She did not.
5 Q. When you went back into the room in the warehouse with
6 the lady police officers, the count was going on?
7 A. I do not remember exactly if there was a count going on
8 because the police officer entered into the room and
9 I was by the door, the police officer going ahead of me
10 and I was behind her. So I stood up by the door and she
11 started talking to Mr Zulfikar Khan because he was there
12 at the time.
13 Q. Why did you stand by the door and not enter the room
14 where all the 275 --
15 A. Because two officers were right in front of me.
16 THE COMMISSIONER: Mr Islam, I wonder if we might have
17 a look at your paragraph 36. In your paragraph 36 you
18 said that some envelopes were opened and witness
19 statements had fallen out, which Mr Zulfikar was trying
20 to match up to the envelopes.
21 How does it come about that in the time between
22 these envelopes being collected and the time they
23 arrived at the warehouse nobody notices that the
24 envelopes are open? It seems that this is something
25 that happens rather unexpectedly at the warehouse,
90
1 documents fall out of the envelopes.
2 A. There were quite a few that I mentioned in my statement,
3 five, ten, but the envelopes were properly sealed and
4 the envelopes B and the declaration of identity was
5 completed, but it was loose and that is what Mr Zulfikar
6 was mentioning.
7 THE COMMISSIONER: But we have the picture that these 275
8 envelopes are collected in the course of the day, they
9 are taken to the campaign office. Now, as I understand
10 it, absolutely nothing happens to them at the campaign
11 office between 6 o'clock and about 11.30 at night. Yet
12 when they get to the warehouse first of all someone
13 decides to count them; secondly, declarations of
14 identity fall out of envelopes; and thirdly, they have
15 to be matched up. I am just wondering what happened to
16 them between 6 and 11.30 and why this is all happening
17 at 1 o'clock in the morning in this warehouse.
18 A. Because between 6 and 11.30 some people were there all
19 the time because of the election time, and people were
20 working (inaudible). They come about 11.30 and the
21 elderly people, those who are at home, they were sitting
22 down in the campaign office and I mentioned that they
23 should be all the time there because there are some
24 envelopes and they should not be left on the premises
25 without anybody.
91
1 So there was somebody all the time. I went for the
2 prayer about 10 o'clock and then I come back a few
3 minutes later when I finished my prayer from the other
4 end of the room, and then Mr Kazi came in, Mr Zulfikar
5 came afterwards, and then Mr Zulfikar said what he had
6 seen and he was so concerned about it. At that stage we
7 became concerned about the safety of the envelopes.
8 THE COMMISSIONER: There is some evidence in this case,
9 Mr Islam, that when the police came there were ballot
10 papers on the table. That is to say, ballot papers out
11 of their envelopes, the yellow pieces of paper.
12 What is your --
13 A. I have not seen any yellow ballot papers.
14 THE COMMISSIONER: You did not see any yellow ballot papers
15 and they certainly should not have been there, should
16 they?
17 A. No.
18 MR SUKUL: Mr Islam, who packed the envelopes into the bag
19 at the campaign office?
20 A. I beg your pardon?
21 Q. Who packed the envelopes into the bag at the campaign
22 office?
23 A. Mr Zulfikar.
24 Q. Did you have anything at all to do with passing the
25 envelopes to him so that he could put it into the bag?
92
1 A. No, I did not.
2 Q. You did not touch the envelopes at all?
3 A. He was quite capable.
4 Q. I am not asking about his capability. Let me put you
5 back to the warehouse. You are standing at the door
6 with the two lady police officers and the door is the
7 entrance to this large room containing the large table?
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. And this is at about 20 to 1 at night, is it not?
10 A. Yes, about that time.
11 Q. Did you stand at that door all the time or did you go
12 into the room?
13 A. Yes, I can see two lady officers in front of me and
14 I was behind.
15 Q. You can see the large table?
16 A. Because my mobile keeps coming because people want to go
17 home because it is getting late.
18 Q. Forget your mobile for the time being. Could you see
19 the large table in that room?
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. And you have heard five police officers give evidence
22 here, have you not?
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. What did you see on that large table at about twenty to
25 one or quarter to one that night?
93
1 A. The envelopes were there.
2 Q. What envelopes?
3 A. Envelopes B.
4 Q. Were they open or were they sealed?
5 A. As far as I know, they are all sealed.
6 Q. Not as far as you know. As far as you could see.
7 Because this time is seeing, not hearing. What could
8 you see, could you see the envelopes open?
9 A. No.
10 Q. Could you see any ballot papers, yellow ballot papers on
11 that table?
12 A. Only five to ten envelopes were open, I can remember,
13 but envelope A was sealed and it fell out B and the
14 declaration of identity. That is all I saw.
15 Q. Mr Islam, five police officers sat in that chair and
16 they all said they saw hundreds of loose yellow ballot
17 papers. What comment do you have to make on that?
18 A. I cannot say they are telling lies, but what I saw,
19 I have explained.
20 Q. You cannot say they are lying, is that your evidence?
21 You cannot say they are lying?
22 A. I cannot say it is a lie, but maybe they forget or
23 something.
24 Q. All five of them forgot?
25 A. I cannot comment on those.
94
1 Q. Okay. Let us see if you can comment on this. You did
2 not stay at that door all the time, eventually you went
3 into the room?
4 A. No, I was all the time behind the officers.
5 Q. All right. But you could hear what was being said by
6 the officers and by your colleague, Zulfikar Khan?
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. It is right that he was kind of a spokesman giving the
9 explanation to the officers, you remember that?
10 A. Yes. He said, "These are the envelopes and you can
11 check if you like. They are all in order, there is not
12 any yellow ballot papers or anything. Please yourself".
13 That sort of thing he was saying.
14 THE COMMISSIONER: Do you remember one of the people there,
15 who refused to speak to the police officers in English?
16 Because of one of the police officers described someone
17 who was doing a lot of talking but doing it in
18 a language other than English and refusing to speak
19 English to her.
20 I think it is fair to say that that is the officer
21 who identifies that person as Councillor Afzal. Was
22 there somebody, whoever it was, who was refusing to
23 speak in English to the police officers?
24 A. No, sir, not in my knowledge.
25 MR SUKUL: That must mean --
95
1 THE COMMISSIONER: It is not suggested it was you, I hasten
2 to add. It may have been Councillor Afzal or the
3 lookalike.
4 MR SUKUL: Mr Islam, that must necessarily mean that
5 whatever was spoken in the room, either by the men or
6 indeed by the police, you could hear it all, could you
7 not?
8 A. Yes, but at the time, as I mentioned, Mr Zulfikar was
9 saying that these are the envelopes because when the
10 sergeant came -- in past came two ladies and then
11 another two men came in, as I mentioned in my statement.
12 Then the sergeant came and he was talking to
13 Mr Zulfikar, and he said, "These are the envelopes and
14 you can check. It is your duty to check, if you like."
15 Q. By this time now, as Mr Zulfikar was speaking, as far as
16 you can remember, we are probably up to about quarter to
17 one or ten to one; is that right?
18 A. I cannot recall the time.
19 Q. Let me help you. The police arrive at 12.34. Nobody
20 has quarrelled with that.
21 A. I cannot comment on the time.
22 THE COMMISSIONER: Mr Sukul, I do not wish to necessarily
23 cut you short but I have a slight feeling that we have
24 sucked the juice out of this orange. Your case has been
25 very fully put on the warehouse incident to Mr Islam and
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1 I have got his answers on the record. I am not certain
2 whether further squeezing of the orange is going to get
3 very much out.
4 MR SUKUL: If I can squeeze the orange a little more for the
5 last drop of juice. I am already in trouble with the
6 man who sits on my right in this regard. I have been
7 addressing my mind to that over the luncheon.
8 Mr Islam, when Mr Zulfikar was speaking to the
9 police officer, you can hear the explanation that he was
10 giving?
11 A. Yes.
12 Q. From your knowledge of the election process and the
13 election rules, was he being truthful with what he said
14 to the officer?
15 A. I think he said that the officer had come here to do his
16 job and he let him do it. He said, "You can have a look
17 at everything, nothing wrong is going on", and then he
18 picked up an envelope and then he asked Zulfikar "Can
19 I have a look at one?" and he took one envelope and
20 pulled out these ballot papers and things, and then he
21 asked me to follow him to give me a lift. Then I do not
22 know whether he went or other officers went to check
23 these --
24 THE COMMISSIONER: We know somebody went to check. It is
25 clear from your statement that they went to see
97
1 a witness. They had a witness on the DOI, the witness
2 said it was him.
3 A. But at that time I assumed that probably --
4 THE COMMISSIONER: Everyone seems to agree on that.
5 MR SUKUL: Yes, sir.
6 But Mr Islam, you say that there were five to ten
7 envelopes which were not sealed; right?
8 A. The envelope was sealed, but the B was not sealed.
9 Q. And your evidence is --
10 THE COMMISSIONER: So they took one of these loose DOIs and
11 went to see the witness.
12 A. I remember he teared it off one of the envelopes and
13 pulled out this --
14 THE COMMISSIONER: Pulled out the declaration of identity
15 and --
16 A. And the ballot paper.
17 THE COMMISSIONER: And the ballot paper?
18 A. Yes.
19 THE COMMISSIONER: Which did he go and see, the witness or
20 the voter?
21 A. I could not say. He said he will go and check it.
22 THE COMMISSIONER: Right. But you were not there when he
23 did?
24 A. He gave me a lift.
25 MR SUKUL: Mr Islam, why did you not tell the officer that
98
1 the address on the DOI is the witness's address and not
2 the voter's address?
3 THE COMMISSIONER: The officer can read that for himself.
4 A. I do not know. He never saw the papers. He took it out
5 and I do not know what he was doing eventually.
6 MR SUKUL: You did not feel that you should say to him,
7 "Look, officer, you cannot really check this ballot
8 paper because you do not know where the voter is
9 living". Why did you not tell him that?
10 A. I cannot make a comment, giving direction what he should
11 do, a police officer.
12 Q. Mr Islam, I suggest you sat there with 275 unsealed
13 envelopes and you were just trying to match those loose
14 ballot papers with DOIs in the hope of deceiving the
15 election office?
16 A. There is nothing you are saying, all the allegations ...
17 Q. And this story that you have told this court about
18 counting the votes is just complete lies. Is that not
19 right?
20 A. No, sir.
21 Q. Have you ever seen the size of that safe in the
22 warehouse?
23 A. Pardon?
24 Q. Have you ever seen the size of the safe in the
25 warehouse?
99
1 A. As I said, I have been shopping a couple of years ago,
2 but I went at night and I went to the office --
3 Q. You have never seen the safe?
4 A. I have seen the warehouse but it is quite large. There
5 could be (inaudible word) in the lower floor.
6 Q. Do you know a man whose name is Siraj Odulawa?
7 A. Yes, I know him.
8 Q. And he is one of your agents, is he?
9 A. No. He was a friend, that is all.
10 Q. He has not been helping you in your campaign last year?
11 A. Maybe.
12 Q. You do not know if a man has been helping you?
13 A. Could have been.
14 Q. And he lives in Frederick Road?
15 A. Yes.
16 Q. So you go to Frederick Road from time to time to see
17 him?
18 A. Yes, because (inaudible).
19 Q. And whilst you are there, you try to do a bit of
20 campaigning on Frederick Road, do you not?
21 A. No.
22 Q. You do not campaign anybody in Frederick Road?
23 A. No, because some friends (inaudible names), they may
24 have campaigned for me.
25 Q. And the same man, if I can call him Mr Siraj, it is
100
1 easier for me, he is also the Secretary of the Housing
2 Association?
3 A. That is right.
4 Q. And you are the Chairman of that Housing Association.
5 A. Yes, that is right.
6 Q. How many houses does this association have?
7 A. Probably 80, 82.
8 Q. 80?
9 A. Around 80.
10 Q. The average household in each house is about five?
11 A. Pardon?
12 Q. The average number of people who live in each house is
13 about five?
14 A. It varies, you know.
15 Q. Say four then, average.
16 A. I have no count in here.
17 Q. Would you accept from me that you have about 350
18 potential voters as tenants of your Housing Association?
19 A. No, these are not -- all houses are not in my ward.
20 Q. How many do you have in Aston ward?
21 A. Aston ward, maybe we have about 40, 45.
22 Q. All right. So you have about 200 potential voters then
23 as your tenants in the Aston ward?
24 A. Yes.
25 Q. You were the Chairman of the Housing Association?
101
1 A. Yes.
2 Q. Is it not the case that you have been able to influence
3 them to give their postal votes to you and those are the
4 votes you took?
5 A. You cannot say to a person that you are the chair of the
6 Housing Association and they should vote you.
7 Q. You smiled when you gave me that answer.
8 A. Only you can ...
9 Q. I am only putting this to you: is it not the case that
10 you have been able to use your influence as Chairman of
11 the Housing Association to influence your tenants to
12 pass their postal votes to you and those are the votes
13 that went to the warehouse?
14 A. No. I will not go to anybody, make anybody any pressure
15 or any harassment to vote me.
16 THE COMMISSIONER: Is that it, Mr Sukul?
17 MR SUKUL: One more point.
18 Mr Islam, the reality is that you conspired with
19 Mr Kazi, Mr Afzal and Mr Zulfikar Khan to commit
20 electoral offences that night at the warehouse; is that
21 not the case?
22 A. That is not the truth.
23 Q. Finally, a completely different matter altogether.
24 What reason was given to you for the withdrawal of
25 funding for this case by the Labour Party?
102
1 THE COMMISSIONER: That is not a question that I will
2 permit.
3 MR SUKUL: Sir, in that case I hear what you say and those
4 are my questions for this witness.
5 MR DE MELLO: Before my learned